IMO...it wasn't the "public", per say, who made this horse the 3-2 choice in this race. Horses with mediocre speed figures and nondescript running lines don't get the overwhelming betting support of the "public"...especially when these horses figure to be in last running position during the early part of a sprint race. I doubt that a high lifetime-best off-track speed figure could account for such betting action...especially when it was pretty obvious that this horse was no longer the horse that it once was.

If this horse had won at odds of 3-1...then I wouldn't have bothered to start this thread. But the horse was the overwhelming favorite in a competitive race...and I thought this oddity was worth mentioning on this board, if only as an indication that the "smart money" don't just rely on the figures and the replays in order to make their selections.

One good thing that can come out of this thread is the fact that there is a difference between pace pars and efficient pace strategy. At major tracks, the 2 are closely related, but at minor tracks these pace pars are more likely an effect of jockey stupidity.

[QUOTE=bobphilo;2384066]One good thing that can come out of this thread is the fact that there is a difference between pace pars and efficient pace strategy. At major tracks, the 2 are closely related, but at minor tracks these pace pars are more likely an effect of jockey stupidity.

What can we do move on come on Move on you had the right one.

I barely took notice of pace or speed in this race. At this low level, other things are more important to be looking at. This was a class play for me. I did not care what the recent figs were because the recent races were not that important. The :4: was a strong class play for me and the :9: was a strong play because it finished 2nd at this lever last time and was not a proven loser. Tough call to seperate. Wife and lover show up together.

:D Which was which?

Oh gee, I'm shaking in my boots, tough guy. You accuse me of making "one mistake after another" when in reality I have made only a couple of typographical errors (I'm human) and had the decency to admit it on each occasion, unlike a narcissist like you.
So you call me a fool and begin a flaming war over something like a difference of opinion on handicapping. Like they say, you can always tell who's losing an argument by who's the one who first resorts to insults.
Kindly show some class and try to not expand this by involving a 3rd party like Thaskalos with whom I am not arguing in this discussion.
You insult me by comparing me with Cratos, as someone you consider a fool. Get a clue - I disagree with him over 90% of the time.
I won't match wits with you as you are only half prepared. Good bye and good riddance.

:9: was wife, :4: was lover.
Kinky Handicapping.:cool:

Crushing, fumbling, bumbling, stumbling reply as usual....I break wanna-bees like you over my knee on a daily basis in the betting pools, that's if you're not busted already.....My back hurts from having to stoop down to your level. You prove that's there's no age limit to being a PUNK.


Now we're done.....

[quote=dlivery;2384070]I wish for nothing more than to move on. I was attacked personally and defended myself and now that awful business is over. I would like nothing better than a polite discussion of pace handicapping to continue.

Come on RR, you're way out of line here.

With all due respect CJ, you're wrong.....I took it easy on him.

Cj, Thank you for being the voice of reason. Kindly block any of these further vicious attacks, including removing this last one where he falsely claims he was "being easy on me". I was tempted to reply in kind but would rather show some class and leave it alone.
I don't even mind you leaving up all his previous rants as they show what a vicious punk he really is. Your last post should then be the last word.

Damn dude, you need to shut the hell up....I've got a fist full of red-cards, doesn't change anything. What happened to being polite and moving on?...You're full of shit and a phony lying ass, that's what happened.

Interesting, in this type of race I find pace important since the ability to maintain is the sign of a fit and healthy horse as few are able to do this and when they do come along they are gold. One must be careful in that these speed form patterns are briefer in cheaper horses and one must catch them early. Once assured that the horse is not at the end of it's form cycle as indicated by speed and pace figures, I find them just as valuable as in stakes races.
One must also be aware that there is more chicanery as well as just plain bad riding in lower class races which can screw with expected results. Bad riders with no sense of pace must be avoided at all costs or as Ainsle would say are "Bad for the digestion". The problem is that they sometimes win by sheer luck which is hard to predict. The notion of pace pattern is largely unknown to them. Pace and final pars must be viewed with suspicion as they may have been set by riders that didn't pace their horse properly and do not represent optimal energy distribution but just jockey poor opinion which becomes the norm. At major tracks the better jocks have more likely figured out how to distribute their energy.

What happened to your "I'm done" Of the 2 of us I'm the one that has the class to not continue your game of vicious insults. By all means, continue to show what you are in your endless posts.