Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
I understand what Paul is saying here.Paul is referring to the spiritual self as I am. That the physical body does not contain the saving graces we need. That if you follow just the desires of the body and neglect the spiritual side, it will corrupt you. I agree with that, but I would not use the wording they used back then which was normal then, but not now.
What I would say in place of what Paul said is that one's life expands and contracts according to how open one's heart is, specifically the spiritual heart. What you referred to here and previously with the quote from Jesus was a condemnation of worldly hearts in love with materialism. That is not the same as the spiritual heart I am talking about because the spiritual heart it is not concerned with materialism. I hope this clarifys my point.
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No, Paul is not saying that. Otherwise, Paul would be agreeing with the Gnostics (which he condemned elsewhere) and be condemning our physical bodies because they're evil! He's not condemning or even indicting our physical bodies but rather is condemning human nature, which he metaphorically refers to as "the flesh" -- as opposed to the spiritual.
Moreover, the human body has no desires in and of itself. Desires are produced by our mind, will, affections and/conscience. Human desires proceed from the heart. This is precisely what Jesus taught in Matthew 5. From the HEART proceeds murder, fornication, envy, etc. etc. In other words, from the heart proceeds murderous desires, sexual desires, etc. Also, desires proceed from our sinful human nature. See the following NIV renderings:
Rom 7:18
18
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
NIV
And,
Gal 5:16-21
16
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
NIV
And the "Spirit" is NOT our natural spirit. It's NOT the flip side of our soul. It is the promised Holy Spirit which, again, God gives only to his chosen covenant people. When Paul says, "live by the Spirit", he's instructing the Galatian church to live precisely how Jesus lived! Jesus always lived by and was led by the power of the Holy Spirit within him.
Understand this, please: Man comes into this world with only a sinful nature. None of us come into it with two natures that we can manipulate, control or cultivate or decide with will become our dominant nature: Sinful/Evil and Sinless/Good. All scripture teaches that man is a sinner because we are born that way. It's our nature. There is absolutely nothing a person can do to change his nature. That is totally beyond our purview and power.
This is precisely why a man must be born again if he hopes to see the kingdom of heaven. And this new birth is strictly a supernatural act of God.
Analogy Number One: The new birth is no more under our control than was our natural birth.
If you read very carefully and slowly with the intention of understanding Jesus' words to Nicodemus in John 3, you will learn that Jesus never told Nicodemus that he must do something to enter the kingdom of God, but rather something must be done TO him. Don't miss the pointed Analogy Number Two between the Holy Spirit and the wind. Jesus didn't tell Nick that the Spirit will blow wherever and whenever he wishes it blow, but rather that the wind blows where it wishes. We can no more command the Holy Spirit to come into our lives than any of us can command the wind to cease blowing or change direction.
