Religion II

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

In fact, I would have never broached the subject if you hadn't told me that my "arrow of time" has causes and effects all backwards, telling everyone that my flow of time has effects preceding causes,which is a lie. It doesn't. It was at that point that I told you that effects in human activities can precede causes anyway in this physical world. So, you not only misrepresented my position with my logical flow of time, but you're dead wrong when you say that causes must always precede effects in this world.

Bottom line: It was your big mouth into which you inserted foot.

Eh, excuse me we had not discussed your idiotic backwards time theory for months if not a year until recently when out of the blue you responded to my post on a totally different subject...

Originally Posted by boxcar

You haven't figured anything out. You can't even figure out were the Present is in relation to the Past and Future in your crazy "arrow of time" scheme.

Again, put up or shut up bunky

[hcap]

[SIZE="3"]Put up or shut up.

One example where effect precedes cause, or bunky sometimes cause doesn't[ precede efffect/SIZE]

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I wasn't aware that anyone has to become the incarnation of any philosopher to study him.

You are deflecting.

• You have made numerous statements that the Catholics have it all wrong.
• You have cited Feser as an authority.
• Feser is a Catholic, is he not?
• It then follows that
  • the Catholics do not have it all wrong and you are cherry picking, or ...
  • you have violated the Law of Noncontradiction.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

In fact, I would have never broached the subject if you hadn't told me that my "arrow of time" has causes and effects all backwards, telling everyone that my flow of time has effects preceding causes,which is a lie. It doesn't. It was at that point that I told you that effects in human activities can precede causes anyway in this physical world. So, you not only misrepresented my position with my logical flow of time, but you're dead wrong when you say that causes must always precede effects in this world.

Your entire time thesis wrong, "backwards", and illogical

Originally Posted by You

The Future always come to us out of one direction to become the Past in the opposite direction. The Future always comes to us from the East to become the Past in the West.

So the Future becomes the Past? THEREFORE IT MUST ARRIVE before THE PAST AND PRESENT Complete and total nonsense.

Does the outcome of a horse race come before it's start, and before the past performances of all the horses in that horse race.?

So as a "professional" horse player who theoretically earned his livelihood by successfully wagering. Are you telling us you never needed past performances?

Did you also work part time as a salesman for the Brooklyn Bridge company? Seems to me you must have needed a supplemental source of income.

OH YEAH, Did you collect your suckers money before they signed on the dotted line and asked you pertinent questions ABOUT IT'S OWNERSHIP?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Your entire time thesis wrong, "backwards", and illogical
So the Future becomes the Past? THEREFORE IT MUST ARRIVE before THE PAST AND PRESENT Complete and total nonsense.

Does the outcome of a horse race come before it's start, and before the past performances of all the horses in that horse race.?

So as a "professional" horse player who theoretically earned his livelihood by successfully wagering. Are you telling us you never needed past performances?

Did you also work part time as a salesman for the Brooklyn Bridge company? Seems to me you must have needed a supplemental source of income.

OH YEAH, Did you collect your suckers money before they signed on the dotted line and asked you pertinent questions ABOUT IT'S OWNERSHIP?

No, it isn't. The Future contains all new, unused time, which gets used when it passes through the Present and that used time flows into the Past -- the graveyard of all used or spent time.

With your absurd flow, you have the graveyard of used or spent time (the Past) passing through the Present to be used and spent again to become new, unused time.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, it isn't. The Future contains all new, unused time, which gets used when it passes through the Present and that used time flows into the Past -- the graveyard of all used or spent time.

With your absurd flow, you have the graveyard of used or spent time (the Past) passing through the Present to be used and spent again to become new, unused time.

You definitely live in LaLas Land.

Did you or did you not say the future precedes the past? Meaning it must also precede the present.

English must be not your second language, but your 100th.
In order to understand your boxcarioan lingo, we must re-define before and after.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You definitely live in LaLas Land.

Did you or did you not say the future precedes the past? Meaning it must also precede the present.

English must be not your second language, but your 100th.
In order to understand your boxcarioan lingo, we must re-define before and after.

What part of my 9950 didn't you get? I have the Future preceding Present -- always have! The Future MUST precede the Present, since time is only consumed by us in the Present.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What part of my 9950 didn't you get? I have the Future preceding Present -- always have! The Future MUST precede the Present, since time is only consumed by us in the Present.

This is evidence of your long term residence in la la l.and. And evidence our time thesis is backwards.

You have the future preceding the present and the present preceding the past contrary to the human scale activities of clearly demonstrable cause and effect.

...The arrow of time, or time's arrow is the concept positing the "one-way direction" or "asymmetry" of time. And there are more than one "arrow"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

Causality is only one but it is based The "causal arrow of time"
A cause precedes its effect: the causal event occurs before the event it affects. Birth, for example, follows a successful conception and not vice versa. Thus causality is intimately bound up with time's arrow.

The arrow of time is the "one-way direction" or "asymmetry" of time. The thermodynamic arrow of time is provided by the second law of thermodynamics, which says that in an isolated system, entropy tends to increase with time. Entropy can be thought of as a measure of microscopic disorder; thus the second law implies that time is asymmetrical with respect to the amount of order in an isolated system: as a system advances through time, it becomes more statistically disordered. This asymmetry can be used empirically to distinguish between future and past, though measuring entropy does not accurately measure time. Also, in an open system, entropy can decrease with time.

You cannot unbreak an egg bunky, no matter how many inappropriate and ill-defined word games you pose

[hcap]

As I said there are more than one arrow. I use causality assuming no one in their right mind thinks "cause sometimes does not precede effect"

And although mathematically there is no reason why time must be asymmetric, all the other arrows do a decent job of adding to the preponderance of evidence that before comes before after

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

3 Arrows

3.1 The thermodynamic arrow of time
3.2 The cosmological arrow of time
3.3 The radiative arrow of time
3.4 The causal arrow of time
3.5 The particle physics (weak) arrow of time
3.6 The quantum arrow of time
3.7 The quantum source of time
3.8 The psychological/perceptual arrow o

[hcap]

Bunky, let's not forget.....

The psychological/perceptual arrow of time

A related mental arrow arises because one has the sense that one's perception is a continuous movement from the known (past) to the unknown (future). Anticipating the unknown forms the psychological future, which always seems to be something one is moving towards. However, like a projection in a mirror, it makes what is actually already a part of memory, such as desires, dreams, and hopes, seem ahead of the observer.

....The other side of the psychological passage of time is in the realm of volition and action. We plan and often execute actions intended to affect the course of events in the future.

From the Rubaiyat:

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

— Omar Khayyám (translation by Edward Fitzgerald).


.................................................. .....................................

Does this common perception of time exist in your lala land frame of reference?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

This is evidence of your long term residence in la la l.and. And evidence our time thesis is backwards.

You have the future preceding the present and the present preceding the past contrary to the human scale activities of clearly demonstrable cause and effect.

...The arrow of time, or time's arrow is the concept positing the "one-way direction" or "asymmetry" of time. And there are more than one "arrow"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

Causality is only one but it is based The "causal arrow of time"
A cause precedes its effect: the causal event occurs before the event it affects. Birth, for example, follows a successful conception and not vice versa. Thus causality is intimately bound up with time's arrow.

The arrow of time is the "one-way direction" or "asymmetry" of time. The thermodynamic arrow of time is provided by the second law of thermodynamics, which says that in an isolated system, entropy tends to increase with time. Entropy can be thought of as a measure of microscopic disorder; thus the second law implies that time is asymmetrical with respect to the amount of order in an isolated system: as a system advances through time, it becomes more statistically disordered. This asymmetry can be used empirically to distinguish between future and past, though measuring entropy does not accurately measure time. Also, in an open system, entropy can decrease with time.

You cannot unbreak an egg bunky, no matter how many inappropriate and ill-defined word games you pose

You've been living your entire life asleep!

Causality has nothing to do with the logical flow Time, anymore than it does with the chronological flow. Matter in motion through Space is the cause of all Time! Logically speaking, new, unused Time must precede the Present because the Present is the only instance in Time that Time can get used, and once it's used it continues its flow into the Past which is the reservoir or graveyard of all used, spent Time.

Your idiotic flow of Time has all the used time of the Past passing through the Present to get reused and all this recycled, used time passes into the reservoir of unused, new Time of the Future. This is insane! You should be locked up for dreaming up this insanity and trying to foist it upon the minds of rational thinkers.

[hcap]

Homer agrees with you

YouTube (Short URL)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Bunky, let's not forget.....

The psychological/perceptual arrow of time

A related mental arrow arises because one has the sense that one's perception is a continuous movement from the known (past) to the unknown (future). Anticipating the unknown forms the psychological future, which always seems to be something one is moving towards. However, like a projection in a mirror, it makes what is actually already a part of memory, such as desires, dreams, and hopes, seem ahead of the observer.

....The other side of the psychological passage of time is in the realm of volition and action. We plan and often execute actions intended to affect the course of events in the future.

From the Rubaiyat:

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

— Omar Khayyám (translation by Edward Fitzgerald).


.................................................. .....................................

Does this common perception of time exist in your lala land frame of reference?

We don't move toward anything. Time moves towards us, then through us and then past or beyond us.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

We don't move toward anything. Time moves towards us, then through us and then past or beyond us.

No we are not standing still as time like a collection of water particles like a river flows over, or thru us.

Everything in all of us, each cell, brain, blood and microbe, every breath, every hanging toenail exists in time with us. And all of it moves from the past to the present to the future.

As I said, try unbreaking an egg, or unbreaking a window

YouTube (Short URL)

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You've been living your entire life asleep!

Causality has nothing to do with the logical flow Time, anymore than it does with the chronological flow.

And I thought English was not your first language but your 100th.

I guess I was correct. NO more today. It is too painful trying to have havie a rational discussion with a non english speaking boxcarian