Charlatan Stripped Of Arkansas Derby??

[HHE10]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I think doping rules is one situation where legal formalism has a lot of merit.

For instance, back in the day, sprinters took certain cold medications as stimulants. So the IAAF outlawed them. They still took them, of course, and claimed that they had colds. Didn't matter- the IAAF suspended them anyway.

"It's nothing" is simply not a defense to a charge of use of a banned substance. It isn't the trainer's authority to decide what's "nothing" and what's not "nothing".

If it's banned, and a trainer is caught using it, that should be the ball game (and, like track and field, it ought to be 2 years out of the sport for a first offense). One reason horse racing is so full of drugs is that the sport is always making excuses for positive tests.

My dad when he raced horses, you were allowed to rub some stuff like "deep relief" or deep cold blue stuff we rub on our joints when it hurts.

It would make them more relaxed or help with the bumps on there legs. Of course now its illegal to do that now

[Racetrack Playa]

Originally Posted by Suff

Lidocaine nothing though. Especially small amount as a topical.

Topical , where did the article state it was a topical lido-caine?

Do "WE" know If Bob Beffart was injecting it or not? hum..
asmussan was just pooped for beta-blockers right, lido-caine is a sodium-channel blocker , Baffert has a long history of being in the wrong ,really no BIG DEAL I say ban him, NOW.


google-

(Torsades de pointes)

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by HHE10

My dad when he raced horses, you were allowed to rub some stuff like "deep relief" or deep cold blue stuff we rub on our joints when it hurts.

It would make them more relaxed or help with the bumps on there legs. Of course now its illegal to do that now

I'm totally in favor of a drug scheduling process whereby if trainers can show that a substance is really harmless, doesn't enhance performance, and/or is medically necessary, AND THE USE OF THE SUBSTANCE IS DISCLOSED TO BETTORS, it can be used.

But that's not at all what trainers want. They want to use whatever they want to use, not disclose it to anyone, perhaps even commit insider trading by cashing some bets on the knowledge at the public's direct expense, and then preserve the argument that it was no big deal if they get caught.

The former is a totally legitimate way to allow some medications and pain relievers into the sport. The latter is a desire to have no serious doping controls.

[Suff]

Originally Posted by Racetrack Playa

Topical , where did the article state it was a topical lido-caine?

Do "WE" know If Bob Beffart was injecting it or not? hum..
asmussan was just pooped for beta-blockers right, lido-caine is a sodium-channel blocker , Baffert has a long history of being in the wrong ,really no BIG DEAL I say ban him, NOW







I just am a degenerate dyslexic gambler, not smart enough to explain anything. a touch of research led me down a rabbit hole

, i did duckduck (Torsades de pointes) ,but me no reada french so well.

I’m not on top of it. I don’t know enough to speak on the issue.

I was mainly saying Lidocaine is everywhere.

Baffert can squeeze out of this using the ole’ cross-pollination argument.

[Racetrack Playa]

Originally Posted by Suff

I’m not on top of it. I don’t know enough to speak on the issue.

Yeah me too, but something stinks

[pandy]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Except at Gulfstream.

Nothing like Baffert's horses. And if you look at great horsemen like Clement and Motion, they certainly win but, once again, their horses don't go out, set a fast pace and draw off easily the way Baffert's do. His horses look juiced. And I'm amazed when people say that Baffert trains his horses fast and hard and that's why they do so well. That's bunk. Many trainers worked their horses fast and were average trainers and some of the greatest trainers of all time rarely worked their horses fast. You can't train class into a racehorse. Either the horse is a top horse or it isn't. But, if you have something up your sleeve, you can certainly take a good horse and make it better.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Racetrack Playa

Topical , where did the article state it was a topical lido-caine?

Do "WE" know If Bob Beffart was injecting it or not? hum..
asmussan was just pooped for beta-blockers right, lido-caine is a sodium-channel blocker , Baffert has a long history of being in the wrong ,really no BIG DEAL I say ban him, NOW.


google-

(Torsades de pointes)

The CHRB has been protecting Baffert for most of his career. It's a joke. After those 7 horses mysteriously died they didn't even fine him!

[HHE10]

Originally Posted by pandy

The CHRB has been protecting Baffert for most of his career. It's a joke. After those 7 horses mysteriously died they didn't even fine him!

he probably pays them lots of money just to get away with it. By the time he is ready to retire full time, then maybe he could get pounded and eases it up

[drib]

Originally Posted by pandy

Just my personal opinion, I've always felt that Baffert used illegal methods or substances. His success is simply too good to be true and his past is certainly suspect. He had 7 horses drop dead in a pretty short period of time, and most of them were just standing still when the fell and died. And that was because of a drug he was giving them. Justify looked like a juiced horse, and he was. Anyone with half a brain knew that Mark McGwire was juiced when he all of a sudden turned into Babe Ruth. Sometimes, it's obvious, and in my opinion, it's obvious that Baffert is a cheater.

Just buying the best-bred horses helps but his horses consistently run sensational races. Arrogate's mind-blowing Travers win and his win in Dubai simply looked like a juiced horse, and Baffert's horses often run crazy big races like that. If you compare him to Pletcher, as an example, Pletcher also gets the best bred expensive horses, and he also wins a lot of races, but his horses rarely turn in sensational out-of-their-mind performances. Pletcher's results are hard to question, they are in line with expectations. Baffert's are not. Yet many people believe that somehow Baffert is a much better trainer than everyone else, which isn't likely. There's only so much a trainer can legally do to make a horse run its best.

Amen....I well remember Belmont Stakes Day, 2017. Baffert shipped in four horses for the undercard stakes. West Coast (8-5) won the Easy Goer; Abel Tasman (2-1) won the Acorn; American Anthem (9-5) won the Woody Stephens; and Mor Spirit (5-2) won the Met Mile. It was not just the victories; each of these horse ran insane races. Just looking at chart calls, one sees words like "surge", and "powerful", but no chart can really describe how these winners overcame pace, and traffic to crush. I am sure somewhere some trainer may have matched this 4-4 stakes winning day, but I doubt any trainer anywheret has ever gotten such efforts in one day.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by HHE10

he probably pays them lots of money just to get away with it. By the time he is ready to retire full time, then maybe he could get pounded and eases it up

I don't think he needs to pay them.

Bob Baffert is enormously important to the stakes racing in California. If he were really forced out, our stakes would be consistently mediocre. He trains 40 percent or more of the really top horses out here.

The CHRB treats him accordingly.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by pandy

Just my personal opinion, I've always felt that Baffert used illegal methods or substances. His success is simply too good to be true and his past is certainly suspect. He had 7 horses drop dead in a pretty short period of time, and most of them were just standing still when the fell and died. And that was because of a drug he was giving them. Justify looked like a juiced horse, and he was. Anyone with half a brain knew that Mark McGwire was juiced when he all of a sudden turned into Babe Ruth. Sometimes, it's obvious, and in my opinion, it's obvious that Baffert is a cheater.

Just buying the best-bred horses helps but his horses consistently run sensational races. Arrogate's mind-blowing Travers win and his win in Dubai simply looked like a juiced horse, and Baffert's horses often run crazy big races like that. If you compare him to Pletcher, as an example, Pletcher also gets the best bred expensive horses, and he also wins a lot of races, but his horses rarely turn in sensational out-of-their-mind performances. Pletcher's results are hard to question, they are in line with expectations. Baffert's are not. Yet many people believe that somehow Baffert is a much better trainer than everyone else, which isn't likely. There's only so much a trainer can legally do to make a horse run its best.

Plenty of good horses he has trained ran out of their eyeballs and turned into pumpkins.

He's also had horses die out of nowhere before.

[Magician]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I don't think he needs to pay them.

Bob Baffert is enormously important to the stakes racing in California. If he were really forced out, our stakes would be consistently mediocre. He trains 40 percent or more of the really top horses out here.

The CHRB treats him accordingly.

pretty sure he trains for some of them. total joke. corrupt leading the corrupt. the worst people are the ones who keep giving him horses. pretty sure the justify owners are part of the charlatan ownership. trash all around.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by Magician

baffert cheats and kills horses. just like servis. plenty of evidence to back up that statement. it was no shock the wests sent maximum security to baffert.


dutrow got 10 years. baffert deserves the same.

If you followed it at all you'd realize that Dutrow was set up!
That whole investigation was a farce and he became the fall guy.
In all his years of training he never had a single horse die.
That for me says a lot.

[Magician]

Originally Posted by Nitro

If you followed it at all you'd realize that Dutrow was set up!
That whole investigation was a farce and he became the fall guy.
In all his years of training he never had a single horse die.
That for me says a lot.

he was not set up. he was an arrogant idiot. all he had to do is be a fraud like baffert and he would still be training. his personality did him in. baffert is much worse than dutrow. he is on par with servis. cheats and kills horses. difference is he makes people a lot of money. many of his owners are trash just like him.

[HHE10]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I don't think he needs to pay them.

Bob Baffert is enormously important to the stakes racing in California. If he were really forced out, our stakes would be consistently mediocre. He trains 40 percent or more of the really top horses out here.

The CHRB treats him accordingly.

Well I think it would look weird with no baffert horses in any stakes at all