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10-04-2023, 05:29 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 1,764
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Beyer, through his purported contacts, helped me understand that horses aren't as good, or as bad as they look on paper, and that the public (and even "teams'") obsession with the finish of races would guarantee at least opportunity.
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"I like to come here (Saratoga) every year to visit my money." ---Joe E. Lewis
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10-04-2023, 06:30 PM
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#17
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Burton Fabricand / Mark Cramer
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10-04-2023, 07:44 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,664
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There are quite a few very good books out there. So there's inevitably going to be some overlap between what I do and what's in some of those books, but I typically learn on my own.
I'd say the first time I read Steve Davidowitz's book and he talked about identifying weak and strong fields using Key Races opened my eyes a bit. But these days you need techniques to identify them BEFORE horses start coming back. James Quinn touches on some of that in his Class Handicapping book. IMO once horses start coming back it's too late. The value vanishes.
I'd say the putting more emphasis on closing times on turf came to my attention from James Quinn.
If I'm going to be honest, I think I've picked up more things on Paceadvantage from my discussions and debates here than I have from books. Sometimes it's not even some special insight. It can be a simple comment that makes me think about something in a new way.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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10-04-2023, 07:50 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 189
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I failed to mention that the Handicapping Expo 93 Tapes I still have plus a similar series on DVD many years later while not actual books, but similar in terms of content with handouts have had some influence on my handicapping and there was an overlap with actual writers such as Mark Hopkins who worked with Andy Beyer and was the lead on one seminar. William L. Scott also supported his book ideas in another seminar. Lastly, another respondent mentioned Mark Cramer who I failed to mention since I have his paperback Value Handicapping which was also helpful and did overlap with Handicapping Expo 93 tapes which were from Las Vegas seminars.
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10-04-2023, 08:15 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 978
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Sartin/Brohamer
Bradshaw
Scott
Taulbot
Cramer
Mitchell (for Betting)
Ziemba (for Betting)
Schwartz
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RDSS - Racing Decision Support System™ "The Modern Sartin Methodology" . . . . www.rdss2.com
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10-04-2023, 08:51 PM
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#21
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what an easy game.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,096
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without question, Burton Fabricand.
he presents a system for determining a favorable betting situation, in a very clear manner..
simple as it may seem, you cannot be a long-term winner without it.
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Peace on earth, good will to all
GOD BLESS AMERICA
" I pass with relief from the tossing sea of cause and theory to the firm ground of result and fact"
Winston Churchill
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10-04-2023, 08:55 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,086
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Malcolm Gladwell
Frank Cotolo
Mark Cramer
John Templeton
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10-04-2023, 11:16 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 19,100
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10-05-2023, 02:07 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 920
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nobody comes within cooee of beyer, as far as starting somebody(me) on their lifes journey.
beyer, i read it, and then thought about all the possibilities to go further.
only book that ever resonated with me.
a completely different life if i had never read.
sartin, i read it, and can't think of anything i took from it off hand.
ditto all the others that i have read.
my copy of modern pace handicapping is like new.
my copy of the winning horsplayer is a mess.
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10-05-2023, 02:14 AM
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#25
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Out-of-town Jasper
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,364
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The following have influenced my evolution of handicapping, money management and wagering strategy, and my day-to-day approach to optimum performance practices.
William Scott
Lao-tzu
Marcus Aurelius
Thomas Bayes
Alan Watts
Nassim Taleb
Simon Sinek
Andrew Huberman
One of these fellows I would never recommend to anyone else, but felt the need to include him as his works, at one time, influenced me.
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“If you want to outwit the devil, it is extremely important that you don't give him advanced notice."
~Alan Watts
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10-05-2023, 07:08 AM
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#26
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Just Deplorable
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lebanon, Ohio
Posts: 8,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I'd say the first time I read Steve Davidowitz's book and he talked about identifying weak and strong fields using Key Races opened my eyes a bit.
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Me too. And that was concurrent with Beyer's Picking Winners. Those two are my contributions to this thread.
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10-05-2023, 09:08 AM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
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Jim Lehane
Les Conklin
Henry Kuck
William Ziemba
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10-05-2023, 09:45 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 5,371
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Randy Giles
Burton Fabricand has been mentioned a few times. This thread was interesting, especially GameTheory and Dave Schwartz' posts.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=13715
__________________
"If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired." - Joe Biden
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10-05-2023, 10:46 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Quirin (Pace)
Beyer (Speed)
Quinn (Turf)
Mordin (Europe)
But overall, the one I learned the most from was Henry Kuck. His Winner's File book is as good as any out there and a lot of it holds up to this day, though you have to use common sense with how often horses run (don't run!) these days.
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I really miss Kuck's numbers. To this day can't look at anyone elses as his numbers were great.
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10-05-2023, 01:16 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 5,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBD400
I really miss Kuck's numbers. To this day can't look at anyone elses as his numbers were great.
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Have you looked into TimeformUS?
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"If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired." - Joe Biden
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