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09-19-2019, 12:22 PM
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#751
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
SA Oil Attack <> our problem
SA gets obliterated by Iran =  |
Conversely why is Iran selling oil to the Europeans our problem?
It's what kickstarted the whole thing in the first place.
If you want to go full "not my problem" isolationist that's fine but it runs contrary to any of the actions the US has taken since May 2018.
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09-19-2019, 01:04 PM
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#752
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind the Pine Curtain
Posts: 10,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
You guys know that Saudi has it's own Air Force right?
They can respond too...........
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And they should. This reeks of SA wanting an outsider (as) do their dirty work so that they can enjoy the appearance of being non combative. Trump has made all the right moves here so far. I'm surprised b/c I didn't think he'd show restraint. The more he's in office the more people like me (that didn't like him as a candidate but voted "against Hilary") have come to appreciate the results he's achieved
__________________
“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” -Joe Biden
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09-19-2019, 02:17 PM
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#753
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElKabong
And they should. This reeks of SA wanting an outsider (as) do their dirty work so that they can enjoy the appearance of being non combative. Trump has made all the right moves here so far. I'm surprised b/c I didn't think he'd show restraint. The more he's in office the more people like me (that didn't like him as a candidate but voted "against Hilary") have come to appreciate the results he's achieved
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The right move was not abandoning a multi-lateral deal kicking this whole thing off.
Welcome to the light though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Sure but if you think Israel isn't actively trying to drag us into a war with Iran I've got another bridge for you too.
They want it. The Saudis reeeeeaaaallllyyy want it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
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09-19-2019, 02:22 PM
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#754
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Conversely why is Iran selling oil to the Europeans our problem?
It's what kickstarted the whole thing in the first place.
If you want to go full "not my problem" isolationist that's fine but it runs contrary to any of the actions the US has taken since May 2018.
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Ely = doesn't get it
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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09-19-2019, 02:28 PM
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#755
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
The right move was not abandoning a multi-lateral deal kicking this whole thing off.
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It was a bad deal. Chuck Schumer told me so himself.
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09-19-2019, 02:42 PM
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#756
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
It was a bad deal. Chuck Schumer told me so himself.
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No deal and Iran blowing shit up is certainly better. 
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 09-19-2019 at 02:44 PM.
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09-19-2019, 02:51 PM
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#757
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElKabong
And they should. This reeks of SA wanting an outsider (as) do their dirty work so that they can enjoy the appearance of being non combative. Trump has made all the right moves here so far. I'm surprised b/c I didn't think he'd show restraint. The more he's in office the more people like me (that didn't like him as a candidate but voted "against Hilary") have come to appreciate the results he's achieved
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Exactly. Rep. John Garamendi (D), Armed Services Committee, said an attack on Saudi Arabia is not an attack on the U.S. and that the President cannot take us to war, only Congress can declare war.
President Trump has no authority to attack a foreign country, because it attacked Saudi Arabia.
If the war mongers want war they need to make the case, for war, before Congress and according to Rep. Garamendi (D) that is a hard case to make.
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09-19-2019, 03:09 PM
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#758
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Norfolk VA
Posts: 6,246
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At best, that deal only kicked the can down the road. I'd much rather Iran be using 500 lb bombs as opposed to nuclear weapons. I think these attacks show Iran's deepening desperation.
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09-19-2019, 03:24 PM
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#759
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
No deal and Iran blowing shit up is certainly better. |
Refresh my memory. Did Congress ratify this "deal"?
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09-19-2019, 03:39 PM
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#760
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Refresh my memory. Did Congress ratify this "deal"?
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Refresh mine... was Iran blowing shit up and enriching beyond reactor levels before we left this fake deal?
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 09-19-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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09-19-2019, 03:41 PM
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#761
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delayjf
At best, that deal only kicked the can down the road. I'd much rather Iran be using 500 lb bombs as opposed to nuclear weapons. I think these attacks show Iran's deepening desperation.
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So the deal was working and Iran wasn't blowing stuff up and enriching beyond reactor levels prior to our leaving correct?
They're doing both of those now.
Why can't y'all just admit that leaving and embarking on this maximum pressure thing was a mistake?
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09-19-2019, 03:43 PM
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#762
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Ely = doesn't get it
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I do...
I just don't understand why one doesn't matter but the other apparently does...
Plus play your Iran/Saudi tape forward. They get into a conflict. Iran slaps the KSA around and closes the Straits. World economy tanks.
We just sit around and watch?
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09-19-2019, 03:50 PM
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#763
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Refresh mine... was Iran blowing shit up and enriching beyond reactor levels before we left this fake deal?
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Yep. Iran has been supporting and funding terrorists with the Obama cash infusion, way before President Trump withdrew from the Obama imperial presidency illegal deal.
As far as enriching more than likely it was. We have no way of knowing since the U.s. couldn't make inspections under the illegal deal.
FYI the President does not have the authority to bind the U.S. to treaties, which the Iran deal is. That power belongs to congress.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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09-19-2019, 03:57 PM
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#764
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Yep. Iran has been supporting and funding terrorists with the Obama cash infusion, way before President Trump withdrew from the Obama imperial presidency illegal deal. 
As far as enriching more than likely it was. We have no way of knowing since the U.s. couldn't make inspections under the illegal deal. 
FYI the President does not have the authority to bind the U.S. to treaties, which the Iran deal is. That power belongs to congress.  |
Seizing foreign flagged tankers? Striking foreign flagged tankers? Shooting down American Aircraft? Striking the Saudi Oil Infrastructure?
Get out of here... they were funding proxies and fighting in Syria and Yemen just like we were... nothing but business as usual.
This "Cash Infusion" nonsense is simply that.
Funny everyone including the current Administration is on record saying they weren't...
There was no "treaty"... the JCPOA was part of a larger UN mandate the Executive Branch does have the authority to join.
But again... enjoy arguing it was a fake deal and that it didn't mean anything in light of the events of this summer.
Before May 2018: Iran isn't building nukes and is mostly just doing Iran.
Post May 2018: Iran is enriching and blowing up stuff, shooting down our aircraft, and hijacking shipping.
One of these is not like the other...
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09-19-2019, 04:04 PM
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#765
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Seizing foreign flagged tankers? Striking foreign flagged tankers? Shooting down American Aircraft? Striking the Saudi Oil Infrastructure?
Get out of here... they were funding proxies and fighting in Syria and Yemen just like we were... nothing but business as usual.
This "Cash Infusion" nonsense is simply that.
Funny everyone including the current Administration is on record saying they weren't...
There was no "treaty"... the JCPOA was part of a larger UN mandate the Executive Branch does have the authority to join.
But again... enjoy arguing it was a fake deal and that it didn't mean anything in light of the events of this summer.
Before May 2018: Iran isn't building nukes and is mostly just doing Iran.
Post May 2018: Iran is enriching and blowing up stuff, shooting down our aircraft, and hijacking shipping.
One of these is not like the other...
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A treaty is any agreement between foreign powers. It certainly is a treaty, an illegal and invalid one as it was never ratified by Congress.
What is TREATY?
In international law. An agreement between two or more independent states. Brande. An agreement, league, or contract between two or more nations or sovereigns, formally signed by commissioners properly authorized, and solemnly ratified by the several sovereigns or the supreme power of each state. Webster; Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, 5 Pet. 00, 8 L. Ed. 25; Edye v. Robertson, 112 U. S. 5S0, 5 Sup. Ct. 247, 28 L. Ed. 798; Holmes v. Jennison. 14 Pet. 571, 10 L. Ed. 579; U. S. v. Rauscher, 119 U. S. 407, 7 Sup. Ct. 234, 30 L. Ed. 425; Ex parte Ortiz (C. C.) 100 Fed. 902. In private law, “treaty” signifies the discussion of terms which immediately precedes the conclusion of a contract or other transaction. A warranty on the sale of goods, to be valid, must be made during the “treaty” preceding the sale. Chit. Cont. 419; Sweet.
https://thelawdictionary.org/treaty/
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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