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06-07-2017, 11:23 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Ritvo era begins at Santa Anita. “Takeout is too high, no question about it"
http://www.drf.com/news/ritvo-town-changes-are-way
Excerpt:
Takeout
“Takeout is too high, there’s no question about it,” Ritvo said. “It’s the scariest thing in the world [for racetracks] because our revenue streams are so limited. We can’t take 20 percent from a customer and expect them to bet day in and day out. The introduction of new bets with reduced takeout brings down the blend a little bit, but it’s not the answer.”
The pick-five takeout at Santa Anita is 14 percent; it is higher for other exotic wagers. Takeout for two-horse exotic wagers is 22.68 percent; three or more is 23.68 percent.
Wagering
Ritvo is interested in fractional wagering, which allows small-bankrolled bettors access to wagers that typically require a high outlay. For example, a $2 pick six with two horses in each leg costs $128. Allowing bettors to wager on the pick six in 25-cent increments would reduce the outlay for the above ticket to $16.
Ritvo said he and other Santa Anita officials are discussing fractional wagering and that the tote system is capable of handling the change.
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06-07-2017, 11:28 AM
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#2
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Always good to hear takeout is too high from someone on that side of the game. Not sure fractional wagering is the answer. What is that going to do to carryovers in a P6?
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06-07-2017, 11:37 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Always good to hear takeout is too high from someone on that side of the game. Not sure fractional wagering is the answer. What is that going to do to carryovers in a P6?
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He's throwing stuff out there. It keeps certain people (TOC) off balance. This is the last best hope for meaningful change IMO. I'm gonna do all I can to support him.
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06-07-2017, 11:50 AM
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#4
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Always good to hear takeout is too high from someone on that side of the game. Not sure fractional wagering is the answer. What is that going to do to carryovers in a P6?
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I am not sure carryovers are a good thing in the long run...better to pay out all each day.....more returns in the hands of the bettors means, ultimately, more churn (increased handle).... And do away with Jackpots where only 1 ticket wins, just a gimmick for the tracks that doesn't benefit the bettors at all and everybody knows this is true....I would for sure play the pick 6 if it was affordable versus the number of horses needed to be included to have a decent shot at hitting it...otherwise you are asking bettors to just throw money away trying with a limited number of combos....that is the reality of the bet...at $2 average folks can't afford it...so that's kind of elite, racing needs to be geared to the commonalty....regardless...
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 06-07-2017 at 12:01 PM.
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06-07-2017, 11:59 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
I am not sure carryovers are a good thing in the long run...better to pay out all each day.....more returns in the hands of the bettors means, ultimately, more churn (increased handle).... And do away with Jackpots where only 1 ticket wins, just a gimmick for the tracks that doesn't benefit the bettors at all and everybody knows this is true....
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I believe the P5 should be 50 cents in Ca. On a daily average basis handle would go up significantly.
As far as a jackpot goes I am against but if they did it they should make the take 18% take with 5% to jackpot. And no 5 of 6 payout.
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06-07-2017, 12:01 PM
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#6
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
He's throwing stuff out there. It keeps certain people (TOC) off balance. This is the last best hope for meaningful change IMO. I'm gonna do all I can to support him.
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Yeah, mine was a minor point. Anybody talking takeout being too high is good by me.
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06-07-2017, 12:07 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
I am not sure carryovers are a good thing in the long run...better to pay out all each day.....more returns in the hands of the bettors means, ultimately, more churn (increased handle).... And do away with Jackpots where only 1 ticket wins, just a gimmick for the tracks that doesn't benefit the bettors at all and everybody knows this is true....I would for sure play the pick 6 if I t was affordable versus the number of horses needed to he included to have a decent shot at hitting it...otherwise you are asking bettors to just throw money away trying with a limited number of combos....that is the reality of the bet...at $2 average folks can't afford it...so that's kind of elite, racing needs to be geared to the commonality....regardless...
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Carryovers were a great thing for a very long run. It was the only positive expectation bet at the track. The non-jackpot P-6 with a carryover requires a $2 minimum to be effective. There are enough pools for the "commonality" to swim in so ruining a good bet for the sake of making everyone feel included is ridiculous.
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06-07-2017, 12:11 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Always good to hear takeout is too high from someone on that side of the game. Not sure fractional wagering is the answer. What is that going to do to carryovers in a P6?
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Doesn't fractional betting already exist at every track? What kind of fractions are needed? Pennies?
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06-07-2017, 12:17 PM
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#9
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Doesn't fractional betting already exist at every track? What kind of fractions are needed? Pennies?
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I'm not sure, but it would be a big deal in SoCal where they live for P6 carryovers I would think.
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06-07-2017, 12:37 PM
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#10
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Carryovers were a great thing for a very long run. It was the only positive expectation bet at the track. The non-jackpot P-6 with a carryover requires a $2 minimum to be effective. There are enough pools for the "commonality" to swim in so ruining a good bet for the sake of making everyone feel included is ridiculous.
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It is not about feeling included.... It is about the reasonable chance of hitting it versus its affordability... The deep pockets require the little guys bets, a lot of little guy bets, to have any leverage...they are leveraging their capital in order to siphon away from the non-leveraged...I say level of the playing field so all can have the same odds of hitting it...not just Mr deep pockets
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06-07-2017, 12:56 PM
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#11
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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What would be interesting would be for Santa Anita to make public the combination amounts for winning pick6 tickets so we could get a feel for how many combinations are, generally, reasonable to wager.....I know this depends greatly on field sizes...but on days with 8 plus field for most races....then are the combinations costs of winning tickets likely to be in the $500 range or what....?
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06-07-2017, 01:22 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
It is not about feeling included.... It is about the reasonable chance of hitting it versus its affordability... The deep pockets require the little guys bets, a lot of little guy bets, to have any leverage...they are leveraging their capital in order to siphon away from the non-leveraged...I say level of the playing field so all can have the same odds of hitting it...not just Mr deep pockets
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Why must every bet be affordable for every player? What other business does that? Should Mercedes have to sell their cars at an "affordable" price to all drivers? Should no-limit poker tables be outlawed? It's OK to have bets that suit certain types of players. The betting menu is large enough to accommodate everybody.
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06-07-2017, 01:27 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
What would be interesting would be for Santa Anita to make public the combination amounts for winning pick6 tickets so we could get a feel for how many combinations are, generally, reasonable to wager.....I know this depends greatly on field sizes...but on days with 8 plus field for most races....then are the combinations costs of winning tickets likely to be in the $500 range or what....?
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Most serious P-6 players don't just play 1 ticket so I am not sure how a track could disseminate accurate information regarding the number of combinations played.
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06-07-2017, 01:31 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Why must every bet be affordable for every player? What other business does that? Should Mercedes have to sell their cars at an "affordable" price to all drivers? Should no-limit poker tables be outlawed? It's OK to have bets that suit certain types of players. The betting menu is large enough to accommodate everybody.
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Mercedes doesn't have to do anything if their business is profitable.
Is that the case with Santa Anita?
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06-07-2017, 01:32 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
I believe the P5 should be 50 cents in Ca. On a daily average basis handle would go up significantly.
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What makes 50 cents better than 25 cents or 10 cents? I think they should test varying amounts to find where the optimal size is.
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