Jorge Navarro has the yankee cap on

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Agree. But here is the reality of this mess, if the operators feel his conduct is detrimental to others he can be removed from the premises. At this point the uncertainty of the future of racing at MP should be something Dennis is more concerned about and keeping Navarro around to "fill" races isn't going to win you any votes. A study was performed and it shows races where he was the favorite had the least amount of betting dollars on those races at MP, by the way the study didn't include any off shore bookies!

Hi all. My view is he has to go. I am a public accountant. I feel what Navarro did is the equivalent of me saying on video that I lied when completing their tax returns. My Firm would fire me in a heartbeat. Same here- MP needs to "fire" Navarro.

Joe I get and appreciate your due process point, and it needs to occur here. There are plenty of examples where people have been convicted by the media or worse yet structurally not been afforded proper due process (e.g.- campus sexual abuse cases). He needs to appear before the NJRC and there needs to be a proper ruling that would then affect Navarro's ability to get licensed Forget all the noise and innuendo. He's been found guilty and suspended already, and then "admits" to continuing to cheat. On that basis, he has to go, just like I would have to go because he has compromised the integrity of the product.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Hi all. My view is he has to go. I am a public accountant. I feel what Navarro did is the equivalent of me saying on video that I lied when completing their tax returns. My Firm would fire me in a heartbeat. Same here- MP needs to "fire" Navarro.

Joe I get and appreciate your due process point, and it needs to occur here. There are plenty of examples where people have been convicted by the media or worse yet structurally not been afforded proper due process (e.g.- campus sexual abuse cases). He needs to appear before the NJRC and there needs to be a proper ruling that would then affect Navarro's ability to get licensed Forget all the noise and innuendo. He's been found guilty and suspended already, and then "admits" to continuing to cheat. On that basis, he has to go, just like I would have to go because he has compromised the integrity of the product.

Point 1: Good analogy
Point 2: Wholeheartedly disagree and not sure why everyone thinks they need to give this guy some sort of due process hearing to run his horses. Maybe if you're talking about the legality of being licensed but Monmouth can simply say he is not welcomed. They are not obligated to give him stalls or allow him to run his horses there. Simple as that.

I can understand how tricky it would be to employ the subjectivity in deciding who can run and who can't but I would think in patently obvious cases like this, you can single him out and sweep him into the dustpan.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

I don't have the source for the quote given so.....

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Point 1: Good analogy
Point 2: Wholeheartedly disagree and not sure why everyone thinks they need to give this guy some sort of due process hearing to run his horses. Maybe if you're talking about the legality of being licensed but Monmouth can simply say he is not welcomed. They are not obligated to give him stalls or allow him to run his horses there. Simple as that.

I can understand how tricky it would be to employ the subjectivity in deciding who can run and who can't but I would think in patently obvious cases like this, you can single him out and sweep him into the dustpan.

Thanks Phantom. Agree with you. MP needs to rule him off. The NJRC needs to conduct the legal hearing and mete out the legal punishment.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

Thanks Joe.

I assumed that you were still involved there to some capacity.

I really hate to see Monmouth go south.

Sooo many great days spent there though.

And I certainly understand why you cannot bet there.



As far as this guy training, most people have a perception that it is some kind of wizardry going on. It is not. Anyone that has trained horses with capacity and understands how larger claiming outfits really work could spend just a little bit of time there and fully understand that he is either the second coming of Ben Jones or he is cheating , how he is cheating and to what extent he is cheating.

It's right there to see. Somebody just has to go and see it.

I hope Bobby K, John F. or someone makes sure that happens.

Those guys know the deal.

Anyway, thanks again for the answer.

Many of his horses run in a similar manner to the way Guerrero's horses once ran, they regain momentum in the stretch and pull away. Lets take Great Lou owned by Monster Racing, claimed from the Ramsey's for $10,000 he wins a claimer with a 91 Beyer(6-3-17) that is about 30 bps higher than he ran on the Beyer scale ever before. He then puts the horse in a first level allowance he runs a 90 at MP goes to the lead and wins by 10(7-1-2017). He then goes to Parx and wins a starter under wraps, runs another 89 Beyer(8-7-17). He is eligible for the Claiming Crown in December at GP(if they let him run there) and would probably be 3/5. My take is that the Ramsey's must be really poor horseman to let a horse like this one go!

[upthecreek]

http://www.theracingbiz.com/2017/09/...-francis-dash/

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by cj

Check out Kevin Patterson, who is venturing to Laurel Saturday with a recent claim. A true master of the training game. He learned a lot during his hiatus.

He sure learned a lot over those 9 years he was gone. Good Lord. His ITM% since 2010 must be close to 70.

Nothing to see here folks. Move along. His win% is 38 since 2010. He's just really good at placing his stock where they belong. A true master. You couldn't have said it any better.

Putrid. Just gross.

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

He sure learned a lot over those 9 years he was gone. Good Lord. His ITM% since 2010 must be close to 70.

Nothing to see here folks. Move along. His win% is 38 since 2010. He's just really good at placing his stock where they belong. A true master. You couldn't have said it any better.

Putrid. Just gross.

Well he was never gone. Horses ran in the name of Diamond Oak Stable with him listed as the owner of the stable for trainer Amy Albright for many many years. During those years, the stats for her were pretty similar to what he has now.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

The one major positive I see from all of this is the tracks working together. While there is reciprocity on rulings between states for suspensions, they are working on it together without having the suspension. That is a major step in the right direction.

[sour grapes]

Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe

The one major positive I see from all of this is the tracks working together. While there is reciprocity on rulings between states for suspensions, they are working on it together without having the suspension. That is a major step in the right direction.

on bloodhorse says they will not take any entry til this matter is cleaerd up.

[cj]

Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe

The one major positive I see from all of this is the tracks working together. While there is reciprocity on rulings between states for suspensions, they are working on it together without having the suspension. That is a major step in the right direction.

They aren't working together. They are acting separately, just two jurisdictions happened to act sort of the same way. New York appears to be welcoming him with open arms, and New Jersey isn't suspending him. The stewards only recommended the commission up the fine.

[cj]

Twitter

Twitter

Twitter

---

Last edited by cj; 09-16-2017 at 09:52 AM.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by cj

They aren't working together. They are acting separately, just two jurisdictions happened to act sort of the same way. New York appears to be welcoming him with open arms, and New Jersey isn't suspending him. The stewards only recommended the commission up the fine.

Agree, Drazin has to set the precedent here, he is an attorney by trade and his removal of Navarro will send the right signal to everyone in this industry. If Navarro shows up next may at MP with 70 or so horses there will be a lot of people who will not support the meet, this in itself will be the end of racing at MP.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Agree, Drazin has to set the precedent here, he is an attorney by trade and his removal of Navarro will send the right signal to everyone in this industry. If Navarro shows up next may at MP with 70 or so horses there will be a lot of people who will not support the meet, this in itself will be the end of racing at MP.

Monmouth has lost those New Jersey bred claiming races that they used to do very well with. this past meet flat out sucked with or without Navarro. Navarro probably made it worse. their condition book is awful. Mountaineer seems to maintain a great condition book and that is what has been keeping them alive throughout this downturn. they kept up with it by adding W.Virginia bred races and not with the money in their purse structure because that has gone way down as of late.