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06-16-2017, 06:25 PM
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#151
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
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I realize the bad vibes the GSW juggernaut has created for hard-core fans, but as we have discussed here, this has always been the way of the NBA -- a very few organizations have won most of the championships -- mostly because they understand better than others what it takes to win. It really isn't about the money or contracts. Look at GSW -- they drafted a core of great young players -- Curry, KT, DG, and developed them and also brought in a much better coach, who took them from 50 to 67 wins in one year. Then Durant decided to make his move -- completely legal, but helped by the terms of the new deal. But think about the alternative -- KD could have said, I'll stay in OKC for another year, and under the terms of the new deal, OKC might be able to pick up another big FA and give OKC a shot to win it. If he stays, GSW is still going to be in the Finals this year regardless -- they won 73 games without him. But he leaves -- just icing on the cake for GSW.
Despite all the fantasy talk-radio GM stuff about deals, worth remembering, as Nate has demonstrated only two or three teams, with top two or three players in league, ever have a chance to win it. Thus, much more than in any other sport, title outcomes are determined by the decisions of theses two or three players. It obviously creates a lot of resentment for hardcore fans in cities without such players -- most places -- but that's the reality.
Barring injuries, assuming GSW will dominate the NBA for the next three years or so. Might be a negative for some, but the Jordan era didn't to seem to damage league revenues too much
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06-16-2017, 06:44 PM
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#152
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronsmac
Watching the first10 minutes of the Celtics/Lakers documentary . Damn the players sucked in the 50s and 60s.
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They weren't playing the same game. The game really changed I think in the 70's.
Most of those guys didn't grow up playing basketball. Remember they were kids in the late 30's through the 40's. There were a whole lot of more important things going on than basketball.
This is the first year I didn't watch one NBA game for the entire season. I read some, and followed CJ on twitter. That was enough for me
__________________
WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
Last edited by JustRalph; 06-16-2017 at 06:45 PM.
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06-16-2017, 09:39 PM
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#153
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lansdale
These are two of the greatest hoops players we'll ever have the privilege of watching -- so somewhat silly imho, but maybe inevitable that the perennial argument about who's the true alpha. I've posted a link of all their head to head games below -- one interesting perspective on this pair., because I believe we can assume that these two were checking each other most of the time in these games. I think this summary tells us what we already know -- these two players are very close in ability, although LBJ is often thought to be an order of magnitude better. Their reg. season scoring and rebounding is almost identical, and LBJ is a better passer. In the post season, KD is the better shooter and scorer, and LBJ's rebounding picks up over the reg. season, as we know.
Re KD in this series, he's outplaying LBJ, but not by much. Worth remembering that LBJ, at 32, is now a couple of years past his prime -- we can all see the decline in vertical lift, speed, and stamina. KD, at 28, is in his prime, at the peak of his career. Also, as cj pointed out, on such a stacked team, KD is much less pressured -- when before in his career did you ever seem get open looks, or passes for easy dunks in the lane -- never. For the same reason, he's also playing fewer minutes, and thus has greater reserves of energy throughout the game. OTOH, LBJ, is forced to expend huge amounts of energy, and he's clearly been gassed by the second half of both these games. Despite all, he's still playing at an amazingly high level.
So who is better? At this point, as pure player, KD is better -- he led the league in WS/48, the best overall indicator of the contribution a player makes to winning. But if you asked the question 'who do you want with the ball in his hands at crunch time' , that would have to be LBJ, whose hoops IQ is much higher. One of the best aspects of KD's move to GSW is that he rarely has to make any important decisions with the ball, (maybe the weakest part of his game) since Curry and DG do such a great job.
Wish this were a real series, but still great to be able to watch some spectacular play.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...01&idx=players
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If we're alive in 15 or 20 years we will see players better than both Lebron and KD. 15 years after that those players will be even better.
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06-16-2017, 09:41 PM
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#154
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
They weren't playing the same game. The game really changed I think in the 70's.
Most of those guys didn't grow up playing basketball. Remember they were kids in the late 30's through the 40's. There were a whole lot of more important things going on than basketball.
This is the first year I didn't watch one NBA game for the entire season. I read some, and followed CJ on twitter. That was enough for me
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1950's basketball was like watching slow white guys playing at the YMCA.
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06-18-2017, 12:04 PM
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#155
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronsmac
1950's basketball was like watching slow white guys playing at the YMCA.
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The only thing the 50's teams brought to the game were things like the weave.
These guys didn't just run a weave occasionally on a fast break(did they even have fast breaks back then?).
Their offensive sets occasionally were similar to watching the a team run the triple-option in college football.
Individual talent has since brought a lot more to the game of basketball.
From the mid-90's to the mid-2000s, it can be argued that we almost reached a point of diminishing-returns with individual talent.
The 'And1' era. The crossover dribble era. Some players seemed to be at times more driven to 'waive off' a screen, and attempt a low% pull-up jumper after trying to 'break the defender's ankles' with a shake and bake crossover dribble. Spotlight basketball.
From about the mid 2000-teens to present the game has left that 'And1' era far behind, to a more efficient use of the game pieces and the playing territory.
The 3-point shot is used as a weapon and a threat to a greater degree than ever before. Steph Curry looks like a Michael Jordan in this environment instead of a Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. Klay Thompson looks like a Reggie Miller in this environment instead of a Dell Curry.
With the 3pt weapon being efficiently used, the game has become about screens and spacing(remotely similar to the 'triple option' of the 50's). Both offensively and defensively. The teams who run the offense correctly, horribly expose regular defenses. Defenses have to be active, able to switch men on screens and not miss a beat(not be mismatches), rotate into cross court passing lanes. Just as the offense is about screens and spacing, - the defenses are about handling the screens, and maintaining coverage of the space. A guy like Draymond Green looks like the ultimate team player in this environment, instead of the cool guy on your team that doesn't mess up.
Aside from the unneeded co-opting of Kevin Durant, the Warriors built this dynasty from superior insight into modern basketball and reasonably good fortune with their pieces. They have better management and better suited pieces than the other teams. They deserve to be a dynasty.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 06-18-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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06-20-2017, 10:17 PM
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#156
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,833
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Silly season in the NBA is looking even sillier than normal this year so far.
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06-23-2017, 10:22 AM
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#157
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Nice job by Tibs getting revenge on the team that ran him out of town.
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06-26-2017, 11:34 PM
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#158
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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To no one's surprise, Russell Westbrook was just named MVP....Mr. Triple Double II
Special mention to Charlotte's own Kemba Walker for winning the NBA's Sportsmanship Award, as Hornet's fans will take anything we can get....Congrats to both.
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06-27-2017, 11:38 AM
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#159
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
To no one's surprise, Russell Westbrook was just named MVP....Mr. Triple Double II
Special mention to Charlotte's own Kemba Walker for winning the NBA's Sportsmanship Award, as Hornet's fans will take anything we can get....Congrats to both.
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That is cool for Walker, he seems like a really good guy and has made the most out of his abilities. You guys know how I feel about Russ. He is the real deal, and I think nationally some people saw that finally last night. Good family, married his college sweetheart and worships her and their child, teammates love him.
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06-27-2017, 12:39 PM
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#160
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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The mvp is a silly award that should be changed to the best statistical season award. The player who's been the most valuable for 12years running has been LeBron. His teams have stunk when he's left and his current team stinks when he doesn't play. Even with Kyrie and Love. Russell won the mvp somehow the year Wilt avg. 50 and Oscar avg. a triple double because they said he was more valuable to his team.
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06-28-2017, 10:25 AM
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#161
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Diez meses en Port St. Lucie, FL; two months in the Dominican Republic
Posts: 4,355
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Phil Jackson out as GM-VP of the Knicks.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...gree-part-ways
Other than drafting Kristaps Porzingas, not much went right under The Zen Master's tenure .Although how anybody can get anything done under a doofus owner like James Dolan is still open to question.
__________________
"But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to. "
Fleetwood Mac, Oh Well, Part 1 (1969)
Last edited by barahona44; 06-28-2017 at 10:26 AM.
Reason: Spelling
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06-28-2017, 11:55 AM
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#162
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,833
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Chris Paul to the Rockets...not sure how that is going to work out with two guys that usually dribble about 15 seconds of the shot clock away.
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06-30-2017, 10:38 PM
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#163
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,833
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Paul George to Thunder. Presti basically flipped Serge Ibaka for Paul George and Jeremi Grant. George may leave after a year, but still a good deal. Ibaka was leaving anyway and has already been traded.
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06-30-2017, 10:47 PM
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#164
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Paul George to Thunder. Presti basically flipped Serge Ibaka for Paul George and Jeremi Grant. George may leave after a year, but still a good deal. Ibaka was leaving anyway and has already been traded.
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Good for you and OKC fans.....Screw Danny Ainge and his wheelin' dealin' big ego..
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06-30-2017, 11:40 PM
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#165
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Good for you and OKC fans.....Screw Danny Ainge and his wheelin' dealin' big ego..
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Nobody is beating the Warriors barring injury, but will be a fun season.
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