Religion II - Page 25 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

VigorsTheGrey · 03-17-2017, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar

Again....(now take a deep breath and try to intently focus)...God's foreknowledge is grounded in his eternal decrees (predestination, foreordaination). Also, try to understand that with an eternal God, there is no "tomorrow". Tomorrows only exist in this dimension. God exists only in Today.

Do you believe that tomorrow's 8th race at Santa Anita has already been run...?

boxcar · 03-17-2017, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Do you believe that tomorrow's 8th race at Santa Anita has already been run...?

You're sounding like a broken record. I have answered your question. There is no such thing as "tomorrow" with God. This is why God's name is I AM. Live it, love it and learn it.

VigorsTheGrey · 03-17-2017, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're sounding like a broken record. I have answered your question. There is no such thing as "tomorrow" with God. This is why God's name is I AM. Live it, love it and learn it.

OK, then do you think that the 8th race that comes AFTER today's 8th race at Santa Anita has already been run....unless of course you do not believe in any kind of AFTER.....I don't understand what is so difficult with this question..... It is pretty simple isn't it.....? If you cannot answer such a basic simple question such as this....then I guess it is hopeless to attempt to engage you in a rational conversation...

boxcar · 03-17-2017, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

OK, then do you think that the 8th race that comes AFTER today's 8th race at Santa Anita has already been run....unless of course you do not believe in any kind of AFTER.....I don't understand what is so difficult with this question..... It is pretty simple isn't it.....? If you cannot answer such a basic simple question such as this....then I guess it is hopeless to attempt to engage you in a rational conversation...

It's not question of what I believe. With God there is no Yesterday either.

I have answered your questions biblically. I can't help it if you can't wrap your mind around the answers.

VigorsTheGrey · 03-17-2017, 11:53 PM

https://archive.org/stream/sensation...ge/n4/mode/1up

VigorsTheGrey · 03-18-2017, 12:04 AM

https://archive.org/stream/pessimism...ge/n4/mode/1up

Light · 03-18-2017, 01:22 AM

Vigors

Boxcar is right on this one. There is no time when you are in the presence of God or in God consciousness. Many scientists today also believe that time does not really exist.

Also, everything exists simultaneously (because time does not really exist). Another concept many scientists are warming to. One day I completely understood that concept for a few seconds and then it disappeared from my conscious understanding. Concepts such as these are not possible to grasp with the everyday mind.

And yes, that SA race has already run or been determined. I used to get dreams of the future outcome of races and they were always right on including the exacta. It was just a handful of races. That was when I was really into the races. But I stopped focusing there and naturally stopped receiving those messages. I now focus on more important messages.

VigorsTheGrey · 03-18-2017, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Vigors

Boxcar is right on this one. There is no time when you are in the presence of God or in God consciousness. Many scientists today also believe that time does not really exist.

Also, everything exists simultaneously (because time does not really exist). Another concept many scientists are warming to. One day I completely understood that concept for a few seconds and then it disappeared from my conscious understanding. Concepts such as these are not possible to grasp with the everyday mind.

And yes, that SA race has already run or been determined. I used to get dreams of the future outcome of races and they were always right on including the exacta. It was just a handful of races. That was when I was really into the races. But I stopped focusing there and naturally stopped receiving those messages. I now focus on more important messages.

So what you and Boxcar believe is that All HORSE RACES HAVE ALREADY BEEN RUN.....and that God knows the results already....and so could we if we could all tune in to this timeless dimension.....? Wow...! I guess I'll never look at 1:07 and change...the same way again, now(?) will(?) I....

Light · 03-18-2017, 02:18 AM

Yes, not only have the races been run but all future events have occurred. The proof is in something you said earlier. To paraphrase you: how could someone accurately forecast the future unless it already occurred.

VigorsTheGrey · 03-18-2017, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Yes, not only have the races been run but all future events have occurred. The proof is in something you said earlier. To paraphrase you: how could someone accurately forecast the future unless it already occurred.

I said that....? Which post was that...?

Light · 03-18-2017, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

I said that....? Which post was that...?

Post #355

Although this revelation may comes as a shock to you, it is very familiar to others.
Einstein said
..for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one...

VigorsTheGrey · 03-18-2017, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Post #355

Although this revelation may comes as a shock to you, it is very familiar to others.
Einstein said
..for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one...

I said that "I'd like to think that it does".... NOT THAT IT ACTUALLY DOES....

"That passage talks about Gods plan and foreknowledge.... So does that plan and foreknowledge include tomorrow's 8th at Santa Anita....?
I'd like to think that it does...that the race has ALREADY been run somehow....and that is why God is able to know because only He can see the big picture.....the prophets are able to somehow "see" into the future and that is how they know such and such WILL happen....the future lay dormant in the past....much like the old oak tree was already in the acorn...

So what do you think Boxcar....has tomorrow's 8th at Santa Anita already been run....? How else could God know the result.....?"

boxcar · 03-18-2017, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

I said that "I'd like to think that it does".... NOT THAT IT ACTUALLY DOES....

"That passage talks about Gods plan and foreknowledge.... So does that plan and foreknowledge include tomorrow's 8th at Santa Anita....?
I'd like to think that it does...that the race has ALREADY been run somehow....and that is why God is able to know because only He can see the big picture.....the prophets are able to somehow "see" into the future and that is how they know such and such WILL happen....the future lay dormant in the past....much like the old oak tree was already in the acorn...

So what do you think Boxcar....has tomorrow's 8th at Santa Anita already been run....? How else could God know the result.....?"

Go back to those two passages in Acts that I cited yesterday and try to understand what they're saying. They are teaching that God's foreknowledge (which in itself is an anthropomorphic term!) is based on all that He has predestined -- based on his eternal decrees.

Even the term "plan" with respect to God is another anthropomorphism, since all knowledge is immanent with God. It's is God's nature to be all-knowing.

The Bible nowhere represents Him as attaining to knowledge by reasoning, but everywhere as simply knowing. From what has been said about the immanent sources of the divine knowledge, it follows that the latter is not a posteriori derived from its objects, as all human knowledge based on experience is, but is exercised without receptivity or dependence. In knowing, as well as in all other activities of His nature, God is sovereign and self-sufficient. In cognizing the reality of all things He needs not wait upon the things, but draws His knowledge directly from the basis of reality as it lies in Himself. While the two are thus closely connected it is nevertheless of importance to distinguish between God's knowledge of Himself and God's knowledge of the world, and also between His knowledge of the actual and His knowledge of the possible. These distinctions mark off theistic conception of omniscience from the pantheistic idea regarding it. God is not bound up in His life with the world in such a sense as to have no scope of activity beyond it.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/omniscience/

Hope this helps.

VigorsTheGrey · 03-18-2017, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Post #355

Although this revelation may comes as a shock to you, it is very familiar to others.
Einstein said
..for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one...

I really doubt that Einstein believed that all horse races have already been run and if he did I would question his sanity....it seems rather obvious to me that future horse races are yet to be decided.....horse races are not part of Gods plan, and he has just as much control over their outcome as anybody else...God is not all powerful when it come to the ponies....he might not even be a very good handicapper.....

Light · 03-18-2017, 02:57 PM

Think of all events that ever happened like a huge "pop up card" in 3d. When you open the card, all events that ever occurred and will occur would exist simultaneously on that card. The only thing that would separate these events is "space" not "time".

All the events that ever happened, occurred in the present and all events on this 3d card occurred simultaneously in the "NOW" or "present mode". For example, imagine yourself 10 years from now on the card. I interview the you from 10 years from now on the card and you say you are in the present. I then interview you as you are today, you also say you are in the present, but claim the you 10 years from now is fibbing, he is in the future. Your future self says you are fibbing, because you are not in the present, you are in the past.

But none of the versions of you can exist in any other mode except the present that you all rightly claim to be in because that is the only mode you can exist in. The past and future cannot sustain your existence because they don't exist to begin with.

So for the results at SA to exist they also have to be in the present, not the future because the future does not exist. It is an illusion. Those SA results are also in that 3d pop up card. They have already occurred. It is your reference that is not aware that events already exist. Those events don't care that you are not aware of their existence.

We operate on "clock time" because it is conducive to our survival. Spatial separations of events are processed as "clock time". Also "change" is processed as "clock time". But this is a trick of human perception because "clock time" does not really exist. Here's proof.

If you were put in solitary confinement for a week, in darkness, you would never know what time it is nor whether is is day or night. Your biological clock would become so disrupted you would not even know when to eat or sleep. Time is a human conditioning for survival, but not real. If it was real, you would know what time it is even during solitary confinement.