AROGATE dilemma

[Andy Asaro]

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[AndyC]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I agree with this. Arrogate went way wide and and only decided to run for 3/16th of a mile. Given that he ran a very good race.

If you trained the "greatest horse in the world", would you instruct the jockey to save as much ground as possible or would you instruct him to keep the horse in the clear to avoid all possible problems?

[NY BRED]

Very few t breds run to their prior form after returning
from Dubai. Arrogate's win was incredible after being f'd up at the gate by
the crew and his race within the race.

I know criticisms will now be posted after this statement, but regardless,
Bob's statements during the past week aren't laced with joy,
and frankly, what more does Arrogate have to prove?

It is time to retire Arrogate and let hm roll out the $$ as a stud
rather than target winning the Classic and lose or potentially
face injury or a worse event.

Bob's wife considers Arrogate to be family, enough said.

[Andy Asaro]

Arrogate never looked comfortable during the race. Remarkable that he ran as well as he did.

[classhandicapper]

I thought Arrogate more or less ran his race. He was close up to two very high quality speed horses 1st turn while 3 wide, couldn't stay with them 2nd turn, and then was slowly getting to them in the stretch.

Arrogate does not have push button speed. He's more of a grinder with a ton of stamina. I think that's partially why he looks a little uncomfortable at times on the turns.

The race kind of reminded of the BC Classic with a couple of subtle differences.

1. On BC Classic day I thought the races had more of an outside flow than yesterday at DMR. I doubt losing some ground relative to CC was much of an issue BC day, but it might have made a difference yesterday because he was close up on the 1st turn.

2. IMO Collected was ridden the correct way. Garcia asked Collected into the stretch. He was trying to get away from Accelerate and put as much ground between himself and Arrogate as he could instead of sitting on him until the 1/8th pole. As a result, he still had 2 1/2 lengths at the 1/8 pole. That was enough to hold him off. IMO, had he sat and sat he wouldn't have finished much better and he would have gotten caught late like CC instead.

Arrogate is a tremendous racehorse, but as spectacular as he was in Dubai against Gun Runner, I think his race has been overrated. Horses were winning and running well from far back and on the far outside paths all day at Dubai. That track was not playing like the typical US track where getting left and circling was some kind of monumental obstacle. I said it at the time and I still think it. Great race, but exaggerated.

His Travers was awesome, but it was against other 3yos that had yet to reach their peaks (like Gun Runner & possibly Connect) and Shaman Ghost/Neolithic are very good horses, but not world beating Grade 1 horses.

His race yesterday was very good and likely to make him the mild favorite in a very strong Classic field unless someone breaks out further.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Now we're getting somewhere. I knew you hadn't been in awhile and were just doing the usual anti anything not California thing you do.

Still want to pretend you don't have an inferiority thing going?

I took a photo of the sunset photo over the Del Mar beach after the 11th race yesterday. There were tons of beautiful women in dresses. And great horse racing.

Now overall, Saratoga has BETTER racing. I totally concede that. But I would have to go to a remote town in upstate New York and possibly endure bad weather and sit in a crowded creaky grandstand with a poor view of the track to see it. And no sunset over the beach, and fewer beautiful women in dresses.

Why would I want to do that.

BTW I love both Belmont and Aqueduct and go every time I am in NYC.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by burnsy

He definitely has lost his edge. The funny thing is reading that he ran a "good" race...........the last two races were terrible by Arrogates standards. He's wide, he's giving up ground, if you look at his head and face, he looks disinterested. He'll get a good number by running the race because he's fast, physically (appearances), he looked like one hot mess. That's why I love watching replays. He's the kind of horse that should beat those being about at 90% training tilt. He doesn't look the same, something is up with this horse. Betting those kind at 6-5 is a disaster. The wheels have not completely fallen off, but he needs a turn around and if he's not sick or hurt they are too heavily invested to stop racing him at this point. Very vulnerable at the price he offers on the board. Baffert gotta work some more magic. He should own this division by default if he were the same horse as a few months ago.

This is spot on. Arrogate had a tremendous peak, but now he's past it. What you do with him in the BC at 6-5 is you toss him as far as possible out of your tickets and hope Baffert doesn't find (ahem) the magic elixir to get his old form back.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by AndyC

If you trained the "greatest horse in the world", would you instruct the jockey to save as much ground as possible or would you instruct him to keep the horse in the clear to avoid all possible problems?

I don't really like the 3 wide around 2 turns ride.It works when the horse is much the best, but you lose a ton of ground.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I don't think he's past his peak. I think he is just a slow starter to get into peak form. He didn't blow us away til last August of his 3yo season. Then reeled off magic. Took a lengthy break. And by the figs looks like he is rounding into form. I'm not going to question the best trainer of my lifetime(IMO) but I'd really like to see him have another race before the BC Classic.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by NY BRED

Very few t breds run to their prior form after returning
from Dubai. Arrogate's win was incredible after being f'd up at the gate by
the crew and his race within the race.

I know criticisms will now be posted after this statement, but regardless,
Bob's statements during the past week aren't laced with joy,
and frankly, what more does Arrogate have to prove?

It is time to retire Arrogate and let hm roll out the $$ as a stud
rather than target winning the Classic and lose or potentially
face injury or a worse event.

Bob's wife considers Arrogate to be family, enough said.

I've always hated the "what more does a horse have to prove?" mantra. Really? The horse has run like 5 graded stakes. He has plenty more to prove, like soundness and longevity and being able to run at a top level for longer than a calendar year.

If we want to stop racing horses because they could be injured, then let's just put up the For Sale sign on racing now. We need stars to race longer, not have fans be satisfied to see them about as long as they see tomorrow's Eclipse.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I took a photo of the sunset photo over the Del Mar beach after the 11th race yesterday. There were tons of beautiful women in dresses. And great horse racing.

Now overall, Saratoga has BETTER racing. I totally concede that. But I would have to go to a remote town in upstate New York and possibly endure bad weather and sit in a crowded creaky grandstand with a poor view of the track to see it. And no sunset over the beach, and fewer beautiful women in dresses.

Why would I want to do that.

BTW I love both Belmont and Aqueduct and go every time I am in NYC.

With all due respect I'm not interested in your opinion on Saratoga. I just knew you haven't been in awhile...if ever.

I also know you've got a MAJOR west coast inferiority complex. It is what it is.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I took a photo of the sunset photo over the Del Mar beach after the 11th race yesterday. There were tons of beautiful women in dresses. And great horse racing.

Now overall, Saratoga has BETTER racing. I totally concede that. But I would have to go to a remote town in upstate New York and possibly endure bad weather and sit in a crowded creaky grandstand with a poor view of the track to see it. And no sunset over the beach, and fewer beautiful women in dresses.

Why would I want to do that.

BTW I love both Belmont and Aqueduct and go every time I am in NYC.

The women thing is ridiculous. Been to both places several times and beautiful women are at both, and pretty much any place I go. Aren't all women beautiful? If you don't think so, you aren't looking hard enough.

And really, he is going to a racetrack to look at women anyway?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

The women thing is ridiculous. Been to both places several times and beautiful women are at both, and pretty much any place I go. Aren't all women beautiful? If you don't think so, you aren't looking hard enough.

And really, he is going to a racetrack to look at women anyway?

What else are you going to do when you pass a race?

And really, no, upstate NY women don't compare to San Diego.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

With all due respect I'm not interested in your opinion on Saratoga. I just knew you haven't been in awhile...if ever.

I also know you've got a MAJOR west coast inferiority complex. It is what it is.

I have been to Saratoga several times. I stopped going in the late 1990's, because I didn't like the place. But I gave it plenty of chances because a lot of other people I know love the place (including my mother).

[Grits]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

What else are you going to do when you pass a race?

And really, no, upstate NY women don't compare to San Diego.

DILANE. SHUT. UP.

You really believe only upstate NY women are at Saratoga Racecourse? You roll out this crap out about every three years. Same old, same old.

What you know about Saratoga Springs, NY wouldn't span the head of a pin. What you know about the National Historic Register of Places, and what is required for these buildings, private homes, neighborhoods, etc to remain as such...is even less.

(The track has long been on the Historic Register and the grandstand is not creaky. If it didn't collapse when Rachel won the Woodward, it ain't gonna.)