Belmont Park is adding a synthetic track for 2024 meet

[cj]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1

Those three tracks were Polytrack.

I've read the book about betting synthetic track by Bill Finley. His conclusions, if I remember correctly, is they are more similar to dirt tracks than to turf. But that more emphasis should be placed on late runners.

As to GP, after trial and error I rate 5.5 furlong races as equal to dirt sprints, make 5f races 5 ticks faster.

I make Tapeta routes one tick faster than GP dirt miles, 6 ticks faster than 1 1/16 and 8 ticks faster than 9 furlongs.

If you have difficulty with Tapeta handicap like you would for a horse going from a super fast track like Emerald Downs to a much slower tack like Hastings Park. Adjust and adapt.

The speed of the surface doesn't really tell you how well it plays to speed. If it did, turf would be front runner paradise as it is usually the fastest surface barring rain.

[dilanesp]

This isn't going to be a popular position but "difficulty of handicapping" doesn't strike me as something tracks should be very concerned about.

Look, the most popular betting race is the Kentucky Derby. It's also incredibly difficult- 20 horses, lightly raced, carrying weight and going a distance they have never gone before, shipping in from various tracks to a track most of them haven't run on. How many had last year's winner?

Meanwhile, 5 horse fields at Santa Anita can be incredibly easy to handicap. Which would you rather bet on?

If synthetics make handicapping harder, you can either pass the race or try to develop an edge. But it's good, not bad, that the races are difficult. (At any rate, I doubt they are any more difficult than a field of 10 first time starter 2 year olds on the turf at Del Mar during the summer.).

[affirmedny]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

the Woodbine experience (holding up in all weather and a decrease in catastrophic breakdowns) I suggest went a long way toward this decision...GGF and Presque Isle as well.

One thing it takes getting used to is how QUIET it is.

GGF field sizes are pitiful, dirt was not the problem

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

This isn't going to be a popular position but "difficulty of handicapping" doesn't strike me as something tracks should be very concerned about.

Look, the most popular betting race is the Kentucky Derby. It's also incredibly difficult- 20 horses, lightly raced, carrying weight and going a distance they have never gone before, shipping in from various tracks to a track most of them haven't run on. How many had last year's winner?

Meanwhile, 5 horse fields at Santa Anita can be incredibly easy to handicap. Which would you rather bet on?

If synthetics make handicapping harder, you can either pass the race or try to develop an edge. But it's good, not bad, that the races are difficult. (At any rate, I doubt they are any more difficult than a field of 10 first time starter 2 year olds on the turf at Del Mar during the summer.).

another example, the marvelous Cheltenham Festival in the UK

notoriously impossible to handicap, I've done reasonably well over the years, just finished for 2023

didn't have the best year wagering but who cares? it's fanastic

same amount of random results as Turfway

[Profesor]

Racing on synthetic surfaces is like the lottery most results make no sense why go to the track to bet the lottery when a short trip to the local 7/11=will do

[Speed Figure]

Originally Posted by Profesor

Racing on synthetic surfaces is like the lottery most results make no sense why go to the track to bet the lottery when a short trip to the local 7/11=will do

Great to hear you have dirt and turf races figured out!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Profesor

Racing on synthetic surfaces is like the lottery most results make no sense why go to the track to bet the lottery when a short trip to the local 7/11=will do

That is a pretty bold statement.
Can you back it with facts?

Like percentage of winnimng favs, average payoff, you know, real life results.

And if fav win 30% instead of 40%, ist that good? Don't we all complain favs win all the time so there are no betting opportunities?

GP would a place to statr, the same wagring crowd, basically, has all three surfaces.......

[sjk]

I have also generally quit betting GP (after playing their races regularly for 30 years). I definitely don't play tapeta.

Playing a lot less tracks than I used to. Hate to think I will have to drop NY.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

This isn't going to be a popular position but "difficulty of handicapping" doesn't strike me as something tracks should be very concerned about.

Look, the most popular betting race is the Kentucky Derby. It's also incredibly difficult- 20 horses, lightly raced, carrying weight and going a distance they have never gone before, shipping in from various tracks to a track most of them haven't run on. How many had last year's winner?

Meanwhile, 5 horse fields at Santa Anita can be incredibly easy to handicap. Which would you rather bet on?

If synthetics make handicapping harder, you can either pass the race or try to develop an edge. But it's good, not bad, that the races are difficult. (At any rate, I doubt they are any more difficult than a field of 10 first time starter 2 year olds on the turf at Del Mar during the summer.).

The issue is not difficulty of handicapping. If a serious player is determined to understand synthetic racing better, I’m pretty sure he/she can do that.

The problem I am talking about is the accuracy of the information you have to work with when they are running some races on dirt, some on synth, and have two different turf courses all at the same track. Maybe you have to have some background with figure making and bias determination to appreciate the problems that come up with small samples of races on each surface and many of the horses switching surfaces. It won’t be nearly as bad as GP because they won’t run synth races daily except winter (hopefully), but there will be more days and periods where it’s really tough to make figures or determine bias.

[JohnGalt1]

Originally Posted by sjk

I have also generally quit betting GP (after playing their races regularly for 30 years). I definitely don't play tapeta.

Playing a lot less tracks than I used to. Hate to think I will have to drop NY.

Pardon me, but I don't understand when someone says they won't play Tapeta track.

When you play a track like Churchill, don't you have to handicap races that were run on Tapeta?

[sjk]

I would not expect many of the Tapeta horses from GP to wind up at Churchill.
If they do I may well avoid the races in which they run like I do at Tampa.

[Thomas Roulston]

Since the Belmont Inner Turf Course measures 1 3/16 miles plus 103 feet, they can easily fit a 1 1/16-mile Tapeta track inside of it.

Then they can run 1 1/4-mile races on the Tapeta - which would be much better than those awful 1 1/4-mile dirt races that start on the turn and give the horse drawing the inside post a 10-length head start.

And because there would be a lot of 1 1/4-mile races that get taken off the turf, those races could be run at 1 1/4 miles on the Tapeta.

In addition, on a 1 1/16-mile Tapeta track, 6-furlong races could be run on it - which are impossible at even Gulfstream, whose Tapeta track is 1 mile and 70 yards.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by the little guy

It's for off the turf races ( to preserve field size ) and to be used along with dirt in the Winter only.

This thread caught me by surprise.
However, I knew there was a direct source posting here,
so I looked for TLG. Situation explained.

Gulfstream has been doing this for at least a couple of years now.
Makes sense for equine and rider safety, plus horizontal wagering.

[Profesor]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

Great to hear you have dirt and turf races figured out!

Thanks,it took me many years but now I have it down to where my chances are better than the lottery😳

[Profesor]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

This thread caught me by surprise.
However, I knew there was a direct source posting here,
so I looked for TLG. Situation explained.

Gulfstream has been doing this for at least a couple of years now.
Makes sense for equine and rider safety, plus horizontal wagering.

Wrong, Gulfstream is writing races for Tapeta some days there more races on Tapeta than dirt and turf combined that has turned their championship meet into the ChampionshiT meet and handle is way down.