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08-19-2018, 06:49 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
She runs against males.
She runs and wins from 7f to 10f regularly.
She's a closer, closing into large crowded fields, always going wide.
She has maintained her form for years.
She might not beat Euros, esp since she prefers firm-ish turf, but there is no American turf horse who could beat her, outside of our greatest, and even then she'd be coming at the end, and have an honest chance. There are no Euros with her range. They have sprinters, milers, and stayers. They do not have sprinter-miler-stayers. Just like us.
The person who dismissed her because she's not Frankel, one of the greatest straight turf milers ever (he'd have lost to Goldikova, FWIW, esp on a tight, 2 turn, firm American track), well, yep, compared to him, she's clearly just the Australian Pepper's Pride. My money is on Winx against Frankel at 2 turns at 10f.
Australia is 30 hours from anywhere. Only Goldophin and Coolmore, with their own fleet of specialized planes and runways, travel that far. Winx's connections talked to Black Cavier's connections, who told them the ship was very hard on her. They also are not wealthy. They aren't 200 Chinese Billionaires.
Australians care about Australian races most. Doesn't matter what we think of her, in Australia she is in the realm of Phar Lap.
I'll take Winx over a 6 race "phenom" any day. Racing needs Winxes. 26 wins isn't just sub-par competition, it is her ability to make her own luck.
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that's a great post, although i would think winx owners would be wealthy now if they were not before!
and further, why would she need to travel when there is so much more money to be won in australia.
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08-19-2018, 08:42 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 146
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Papillon, fantastic reply. Wow
Let’s send over a couple of our best horses to the outback to beat her ass. 😂
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08-19-2018, 09:03 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 245
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In fairness:
The horse doesn't know that she has not raced in Europe.
The horse doesn't even know she did not race in the United States.
All the horse knows is that she did run down every single foe it had in her sights for 26 races....
That is saying something.
How many US horses even compete in 20 races? 25 races? Let alone win them all?
A quick estimation says she probably beat 250- 275 horses during "the streak"
Someday very soon, she will get clipped at the wire, and she, the streak, and her legacy will be left to the annals of time.
And that's good enough for me.
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08-19-2018, 09:33 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,873
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The question was is she the best horse, her amazing win streak is a great accomplishment but to be the best you have to beat the best, of which she has never done. She beat a couple good horses on her home turf but I think she would have several losses had she competed in the best races in Europe and the USA.
Maybe the title of the thread should something different, people are not really addressing the question.
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08-19-2018, 10:24 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La
Posts: 1,804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperlunch
Papillon, fantastic reply. Wow
Let’s send over a couple of our best horses to the outback to beat her ass.
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Please give me the names of the horses here in the States that could fly to the other side of the world that could beat her on the grass going 1,200 to 1,400 metres.
__________________
@ShaTinRacing
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08-19-2018, 10:54 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 146
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Woodbine are you serious ? First I was joking. My point was if they won’t send her to the Breeders Cup then let’s send a couple of our best to race her. To see if she’s really the best. How far is 1200 -1400 meters is that a mile ish ?
I think the winx is unbelievable.
But I’d like to see where she stands versus US horses.
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08-20-2018, 01:33 AM
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#22
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
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Boy was a monster...nice video
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08-20-2018, 07:24 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperlunch
But I’d like to see where she stands versus US horses.
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I'd like to see where U.S. horses stand in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe
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08-20-2018, 07:30 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGarMan
How many US horses even compete in 20 races? 25 races? Let alone win them all?
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.....and seemingly getting better at age 6?
We have 2 Triple Crown winners now who can't even race past the same year they won their TC in. At 3 years old they are finished.
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08-20-2018, 10:00 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicknow
I'd like to see where U.S. horses stand in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe
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Lets see. Nowhere. Soft French Turf in October just before the BC.
wont happen anytime soon.
Allan
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08-20-2018, 05:18 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 19,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
The question was is she the best horse, her amazing win streak is a great accomplishment but to be the best you have to beat the best, of which she has never done. She beat a couple good horses on her home turf but I think she would have several losses had she competed in the best races in Europe and the USA.
Maybe the title of the thread should something different, people are not really addressing the question.
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Oh Really?
So Winx hasn’t’ beat much?!
How about Highland Reel for starters?
27 Starts – 10 Wins (7 GR1’s) – 6 Placings ( 4 GR1’s) – 3 Shows (All GR1)
Owner(s):
Michael B. Tabor - Mrs. John 'Susan' Magnier - Derrick Smith -
Trainer: Aidan P. O'Brien
Bred:
(IRL) by Hveger Syndicate
Pedigree: Galileo - Hveger by Danehill
Code:
Pedigree | Siblings | Progeny
Galileo
Sadler's Wells
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
Urban Sea
Miswaki
Allegretta
Hveger
Danehill
Danzig
Razyana
Circles Of Gold
Marscay
Olympic Aim
Highland Reel - Race Results & Past Performances
Code:
12/10/17-R4 Highland Reel 1st Sha 1 1/2m T Hong Kong Vase-G1 3+ Highland Reel Talismanic Tosen Basil 2:26.23
11/04/17-R11 Highland Reel 3rd Dmr 1 1/2m T Breeders' Cup Turf-G1 3+ Talismanic Beach Patrol Highland Reel 2:26.19
10/21/17-R5 Highland Reel 3rd Asc 1 1/4 m T Champion Stakes-G1 3+ Cracksman Poet's Word Highland Reel 2:11.75
07/29/17-R4 Highland Reel 4th Asc 1 1/2m T King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes-G1 3+ Enable Ulysses Idaho 2:36.22
06/21/17-R4 Highland Reel 1st Asc 1 1/4 m T Prince of Wales's Stakes-G1 4+ Highland Reel Decorated Knight Ulysses 2:05.04
06/02/17-R3 Highland Reel 1st Eps 1 1/2m T Coronation Cup-G1 4+ Highland Reel Frontiersman Hawkbill 2:33.34
03/25/17-R8 Highland Reel 7th Mey 1 1/2m T Dubai Sheema Classic-G1 3+ Jack Hobbs Seventh Heaven Postponed 2:32.39
12/11/16-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Sha 1 1/2m T Hong Kong Vase-G1 3+ Satono Crown Highland Reel One Foot In Heaven 2:26.22
11/05/16-R9 Highland Reel 1st SA 1 1/2m T Breeders' Cup Turf-G1 3+ Highland Reel Flintshire Found 2:23.00
10/02/16-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Cha 1 1/2m T Prix De l'Arc de Triomphe-G1 3+ Found Highland Reel Order Of St George 2:23.61
09/10/16-R7 Highland Reel 7th Leo 1 1/4 m T Irish Champion Stakes-G1 3+ Almanzor Found Minding 2:08.93
08/17/16-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Yor 1 5/16 m T Juddmonte International-G1 3+ Postponed Highland Reel Mutakayyef 2:06.58
07/23/16-R5 Highland Reel 1st Asc 1 1/2m T King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes-G1 3+ Highland Reel Wings Of Desire Dartmouth 2:28.97
06/18/16-R3 Highland Reel 2nd Asc 1 1/2m T Hardwicke Stakes-G2 4+ Dartmouth Highland Reel Almodovar 2:32.06
04/24/16-R8 Highland Reel 8th Sha 1 1/4 m T Audemars Piguet QE II Cup-G1 3+ Werther Military Attack Blazing Speed 2:01.32
03/26/16-R8 Highland Reel 4th Mey 1 1/2m T Dubai Sheema Classic-G1 3+ Postponed Duramente Last Impact 2:26.97
12/13/15-R4 Highland Reel 1st Sha 1 1/2m T Hong Kong Vase-G1 3+ Highland Reel Flintshire Dariyan 2:28.43
10/24/15-R9 Highland Reel 3rd Moo 1 1/4 m T Cox Plate-G1 3+ Winx Criterion Highland Reel 2:02.98
09/12/15-R5 Highland Reel 5th Leo 1 1/4 m T Irish Champion Stakes-G1 3+ Golden Horn Found Free Eagle 2:05.41
08/15/15-R8 Highland Reel 1st AP 1 1/4 m T Secretariat Stakes-G1 3 Highland Reel Closing Bell Force the Pass 2:02.26
07/29/15-R2 Highland Reel 1st Goo 1 1/2m T Gordon Stakes-G3 3 Highland Reel Scottish California Disegno 2:34.94
06/27/15-R7 Highland Reel 5th Cur 1 1/2m T Irish Derby-G1 3 Jack Hobbs Storm The Stars Giovanni Canaletto 2:34.93
05/31/15-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Cha 1 5/16 m T Prix Du Jockey Club-G1 3 New Bay Highland Reel Green Dispatch 2:05.69
05/10/15-R4 Highland Reel 6th PLong 1 mile T Poule d'Essai des Poulains-G1 3 Make Believe New Bay Mr Owen 1:36.85
07/30/14-R4 Highland Reel 1st Goo 7 f T Vintage Stakes-G2 2 Highland Reel Tupi Room Key 1:26.81
07/01/14-R1 Highland Reel 1st Gow 1 mile T Maiden 2 Highland Reel Taqaseem Hall Of Fame 1:38.40
06/12/14-R2 Highland Reel 2nd Leo 7 f T Maiden 2 Tombelaine Highland Reel Crescent 1:31.48
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08-20-2018, 05:56 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
Oh Really?
So Winx hasn’t’ beat much?!
How about Highland Reel for starters?
27 Starts – 10 Wins (7 GR1’s) – 6 Placings ( 4 GR1’s) – 3 Shows (All GR1)
Owner(s):
Michael B. Tabor - Mrs. John 'Susan' Magnier - Derrick Smith -
Trainer: Aidan P. O'Brien
Bred:
(IRL) by Hveger Syndicate
Pedigree: Galileo - Hveger by Danehill
Code:
Pedigree | Siblings | Progeny
Galileo
Sadler's Wells
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
Urban Sea
Miswaki
Allegretta
Hveger
Danehill
Danzig
Razyana
Circles Of Gold
Marscay
Olympic Aim
Highland Reel - Race Results & Past Performances
Code:
12/10/17-R4 Highland Reel 1st Sha 1 1/2m T Hong Kong Vase-G1 3+ Highland Reel Talismanic Tosen Basil 2:26.23
11/04/17-R11 Highland Reel 3rd Dmr 1 1/2m T Breeders' Cup Turf-G1 3+ Talismanic Beach Patrol Highland Reel 2:26.19
10/21/17-R5 Highland Reel 3rd Asc 1 1/4 m T Champion Stakes-G1 3+ Cracksman Poet's Word Highland Reel 2:11.75
07/29/17-R4 Highland Reel 4th Asc 1 1/2m T King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes-G1 3+ Enable Ulysses Idaho 2:36.22
06/21/17-R4 Highland Reel 1st Asc 1 1/4 m T Prince of Wales's Stakes-G1 4+ Highland Reel Decorated Knight Ulysses 2:05.04
06/02/17-R3 Highland Reel 1st Eps 1 1/2m T Coronation Cup-G1 4+ Highland Reel Frontiersman Hawkbill 2:33.34
03/25/17-R8 Highland Reel 7th Mey 1 1/2m T Dubai Sheema Classic-G1 3+ Jack Hobbs Seventh Heaven Postponed 2:32.39
12/11/16-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Sha 1 1/2m T Hong Kong Vase-G1 3+ Satono Crown Highland Reel One Foot In Heaven 2:26.22
11/05/16-R9 Highland Reel 1st SA 1 1/2m T Breeders' Cup Turf-G1 3+ Highland Reel Flintshire Found 2:23.00
10/02/16-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Cha 1 1/2m T Prix De l'Arc de Triomphe-G1 3+ Found Highland Reel Order Of St George 2:23.61
09/10/16-R7 Highland Reel 7th Leo 1 1/4 m T Irish Champion Stakes-G1 3+ Almanzor Found Minding 2:08.93
08/17/16-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Yor 1 5/16 m T Juddmonte International-G1 3+ Postponed Highland Reel Mutakayyef 2:06.58
07/23/16-R5 Highland Reel 1st Asc 1 1/2m T King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes-G1 3+ Highland Reel Wings Of Desire Dartmouth 2:28.97
06/18/16-R3 Highland Reel 2nd Asc 1 1/2m T Hardwicke Stakes-G2 4+ Dartmouth Highland Reel Almodovar 2:32.06
04/24/16-R8 Highland Reel 8th Sha 1 1/4 m T Audemars Piguet QE II Cup-G1 3+ Werther Military Attack Blazing Speed 2:01.32
03/26/16-R8 Highland Reel 4th Mey 1 1/2m T Dubai Sheema Classic-G1 3+ Postponed Duramente Last Impact 2:26.97
12/13/15-R4 Highland Reel 1st Sha 1 1/2m T Hong Kong Vase-G1 3+ Highland Reel Flintshire Dariyan 2:28.43
10/24/15-R9 Highland Reel 3rd Moo 1 1/4 m T Cox Plate-G1 3+ Winx Criterion Highland Reel 2:02.98
09/12/15-R5 Highland Reel 5th Leo 1 1/4 m T Irish Champion Stakes-G1 3+ Golden Horn Found Free Eagle 2:05.41
08/15/15-R8 Highland Reel 1st AP 1 1/4 m T Secretariat Stakes-G1 3 Highland Reel Closing Bell Force the Pass 2:02.26
07/29/15-R2 Highland Reel 1st Goo 1 1/2m T Gordon Stakes-G3 3 Highland Reel Scottish California Disegno 2:34.94
06/27/15-R7 Highland Reel 5th Cur 1 1/2m T Irish Derby-G1 3 Jack Hobbs Storm The Stars Giovanni Canaletto 2:34.93
05/31/15-R4 Highland Reel 2nd Cha 1 5/16 m T Prix Du Jockey Club-G1 3 New Bay Highland Reel Green Dispatch 2:05.69
05/10/15-R4 Highland Reel 6th PLong 1 mile T Poule d'Essai des Poulains-G1 3 Make Believe New Bay Mr Owen 1:36.85
07/30/14-R4 Highland Reel 1st Goo 7 f T Vintage Stakes-G2 2 Highland Reel Tupi Room Key 1:26.81
07/01/14-R1 Highland Reel 1st Gow 1 mile T Maiden 2 Highland Reel Taqaseem Hall Of Fame 1:38.40
06/12/14-R2 Highland Reel 2nd Leo 7 f T Maiden 2 Tombelaine Highland Reel Crescent 1:31.48
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That is one, can you give me the others, hence the use of the word "couple" which means approximately 2.
Good grief, sorry to upset the pretty pony club.
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08-20-2018, 06:22 PM
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#28
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99
The “great” who ducked the derby and the arc.
Allan
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And used a stablemate to aid his runs.
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08-20-2018, 06:25 PM
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#29
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGarMan
In fairness:
The horse doesn't know that she has not raced in Europe.
The horse doesn't even know she did not race in the United States.
All the horse knows is that she did run down every single foe it had in her sights for 26 races....
That is saying something.
How many US horses even compete in 20 races? 25 races? Let alone win them all?
A quick estimation says she probably beat 250- 275 horses during "the streak"
Someday very soon, she will get clipped at the wire, and she, the streak, and her legacy will be left to the annals of time.
And that's good enough for me.
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I’ve never understood “the horse didn’t know” comments. What does it matter if the horse did or didn’t know?
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08-20-2018, 07:06 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
Oh Really?
So Winx hasn’t’ beat much?!
How about Highland Reel for starters?
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You mean Highland Reel, who 8 U.S. horses couldn't get past in the BC Turf?
The same horse our Belmont winner couldn't get past in the Secretariat Stakes?
Highland Reel w/27 starts in 7 countries on 4 continents with 7 G1 victories who has flown 111,846 miles in his career from Ireland to other places for races?
Naw. Winx hasn't beat much. She needs to prove herself!
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