Religion III

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Just as I thought: You're not capable of explaining your own incoherent posts. In other words, there is no "correlation".

Did you understand what correlation is from my link?
Maybe I should link to probability? Oh wait a long term racing master must understand odds.

I made my point. Without murdering the first born and suckling babes. Without being all mighty.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Did you understand what correlation is from my link?
Maybe I should link to probability? Oh wait a long term racing master must understand odds.

I made my point. Without murdering the first born and suckling babes. Without being all mighty.

Why don't you make that correlation for us? The only point you have made loud and clear is that you can't untangle your own incoherent, illogical thoughts.

You just can't get past proving to everyone again and again what a pathetic empty suit you are. Evolution hasn't been kind to you either. It must be in your genes.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The answer is obvious only to the simpleminded.

Ad hominem! I.e.., you have no answer so you simply call other people names.

Originally Posted by boxcar

We've discussed this "riddled"before and I solved it.

In what post? In what thread?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why don't you make that correlation for us? The only point you have made loud and clear is that you can't untangle your own incoherent, illogical thoughts.

You just can't get past proving to everyone again and again what a pathetic empty suit you are. Evolution hasn't been kind to you either. It must be in your genes.

Think religion makes society less violent? Think again.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...101-story.html

...We can start at the international level. The most secular societies today include Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Czech Republic, Estonia, Japan, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Germany, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Vietnam, Hungary, China and Belgium. The most religious societies include Nigeria, Uganda, the Philippines, Pakistan, Morocco, Egypt, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, El Salvador, Colombia, Senegal, Malawi, Indonesia, Brazil, Peru, Jordan, Algeria, Ghana, Venezuela, Mexico and Sierra Leone.

It is the highly secularized countries that tend to fare the best in terms of crime rates, prosperity, equality, freedom, democracy, women's rights, human rights, educational attainment and life expectancy. (Although there are exceptions, such as Vietnam and China, which have famously poor human rights records.) And those nations with the highest rates of religiosity tend to be the most problem-ridden in terms of high violent crime rates, high infant mortality rates, high poverty rates and high rates of corruption.

Take homicide. According to the United Nations' 2011 Global Study on Homicide, of the 10 nations with the highest homicide rates, all are very religious, and many — such as Colombia, Mexico, El Salvador and Brazil — are among the most theistic nations in the world. Of the nations with the lowest homicide rates, nearly all are very secular, with seven ranking among the least theistic nations, such as Sweden, Japan, Norway and the Netherlands.

[hcap]

Misinformation and facts about secularism and religion

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...m-and-religion

Criminal Behavior:

Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: "Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread." He also states: "Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries."

Within the United States, we see the same pattern. Citing census data, he writes: "And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be the highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be the among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon."
.................................................. ..

Less Religion , less crime, less "sinning"

[hcap]

And even from
https://religionnews.com/2017/10/05/...s-to-violence/

Testing the proposition that lack of religion leads to violence

Turning to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report for 2016, those top six religious states rank in the top 10 when it comes to murder rate: Louisiana (1), Alabama (3), Mississippi (6), South Carolina (8), Tennessee (9), and Arkansas (10). By contrast, the four least religious states rank close to last in murder rates: New Hampshire (50), Maine (49), Massachusetts (46), and Vermont (45).

In other words, in America there is an inverse correlation between religiosity and murderousness. You might even re-paraphrase Proverbs 29:18, “When there is no vision of God, the people behave themselves.”
.................................................. ....................................


Duh, bunky need I spell it out more clearly? Meanwhile what evidence do you have showing the opposite?

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Hmm. I would have thought that anyone who had 100 lifetimes of experience wouldn't have too many people smarter than him or her.

Nope. Most of the time I was just a serb or peasant railroaded into fighting for the king, queen. commonfolk who didnt survive. most lives didnt survive past 30. maybe I get sent back to try and be at least a little smart or saavy.
well I did make it to 62 this out mostly outta the sheer luck of being born an American in the mid 20th centrury. avoided Vietnam (barely, I turned 18 the year the draft stopped). avoided deadly diseases somehow. and somehow made it though to the 21st century.


Allan

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Light

Do you remember others who you loved in your past lives or families you were a part of?

random memories. was mostly ignored by family. pretty unremarkable. mostly bad memories about growing up dirt poor. and when I got smallpox or starved or something else just as gruesome, really bad memories.


Allan

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Think religion makes society less violent? Think again.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...101-story.html

...We can start at the international level. The most secular societies today include Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Czech Republic, Estonia, Japan, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Germany, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Vietnam, Hungary, China and Belgium. The most religious societies include Nigeria, Uganda, the Philippines, Pakistan, Morocco, Egypt, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, El Salvador, Colombia, Senegal, Malawi, Indonesia, Brazil, Peru, Jordan, Algeria, Ghana, Venezuela, Mexico and Sierra Leone.

It is the highly secularized countries that tend to fare the best in terms of crime rates, prosperity, equality, freedom, democracy, women's rights, human rights, educational attainment and life expectancy. (Although there are exceptions, such as Vietnam and China, which have famously poor human rights records.) And those nations with the highest rates of religiosity tend to be the most problem-ridden in terms of high violent crime rates, high infant mortality rates, high poverty rates and high rates of corruption.

Take homicide. According to the United Nations' 2011 Global Study on Homicide, of the 10 nations with the highest homicide rates, all are very religious, and many — such as Colombia, Mexico, El Salvador and Brazil — are among the most theistic nations in the world. Of the nations with the lowest homicide rates, nearly all are very secular, with seven ranking among the least theistic nations, such as Sweden, Japan, Norway and the Netherlands.

I never said "religion makes society less violent." Do you have a point, other than arms flailing in the air?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

And even from
https://religionnews.com/2017/10/05/...s-to-violence/

Testing the proposition that lack of religion leads to violence

Turning to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report for 2016, those top six religious states rank in the top 10 when it comes to murder rate: Louisiana (1), Alabama (3), Mississippi (6), South Carolina (8), Tennessee (9), and Arkansas (10). By contrast, the four least religious states rank close to last in murder rates: New Hampshire (50), Maine (49), Massachusetts (46), and Vermont (45).

In other words, in America there is an inverse correlation between religiosity and murderousness. You might even re-paraphrase Proverbs 29:18, “When there is no vision of God, the people behave themselves.”
.................................................. ....................................


Duh, bunky need I spell it out more clearly? Meanwhile what evidence do you have showing the opposite?

Haven't you always maintained that the U.S. is not a Christian nation -- that we are in fact a secular one?

[Light]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

random memories. was mostly ignored by family. pretty unremarkable. mostly bad memories about growing up dirt poor. and when I got smallpox or starved or something else just as gruesome, really bad memories.


Allan

Since you say you are aware that you have had many lifetimes, can you remember any experiences on the "other side" in between reincarnations. My understanding is that many people stay 50 or 60 years on the other side before reincarnating. It varies.

Also did you become aware of these past lifetimes through dreams?

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by hcap

Testing the proposition that lack of religion leads to violence


In other words, in America there is an inverse correlation between religiosity and murderousness. You might even re-paraphrase Proverbs 29:18, “When there is no vision of God, the people behave themselves.”
.................................................. ....................................

It is usually a mistake to tie correlation with causality.
I think that I'd rather have a good Christian, Jew, or Hindu next door to me as a neighbor than Charles Manson, a Mafia don, or Hells Angel leader.
If what you are saying is true, you'll find the following report of interest.


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As Christian and Jewish Americans prepare to celebrate Easter and Passover, respectively, Gallup finds the percentage of Americans who report belonging to a church, synagogue or mosque at an all-time low, averaging 50% in 2018.

U.S. church membership was 70% or higher from 1937 through 1976, falling modestly to an average of 68% in the 1970s through the 1990s. The past 20 years have seen an acceleration in the drop-off, with a 20-percentage-point decline since 1999 and more than half of that change occurring since the start of the current decade.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/248837/...o-decades.aspx

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I never said "religion makes society less violent."

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

It is usually a mistake to tie correlation with causality.
I think that I'd rather have a good Christian, Jew, or Hindu next door to me as a neighbor than Charles Manson, a Mafia don, or Hells Angel leader.
If what you are saying is true, you'll find the following report of interest.


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As Christian and Jewish Americans prepare to celebrate Easter and Passover, respectively, Gallup finds the percentage of Americans who report belonging to a church, synagogue or mosque at an all-time low, averaging 50% in 2018.

U.S. church membership was 70% or higher from 1937 through 1976, falling modestly to an average of 68% in the 1970s through the 1990s. The past 20 years have seen an acceleration in the drop-off, with a 20-percentage-point decline since 1999 and more than half of that change occurring since the start of the current decade.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/248837/...o-decades.aspx

My guess is that the religious are dying. It’s why we’re seeing the acceleration.

It also depends on the level of religiosity. I can only speak for Judaism. Conservative and reform numbers are plummeting while The ultra-orthodoxy is growing. And they are having babies...lots of them. I suspect it’s the same for radical Islam and fundamentalist Christians.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

It is usually a mistake to tie correlation with causality.
I think that I'd rather have a good Christian, Jew, or Hindu next door to me as a neighbor than Charles Manson, a Mafia don, or Hells Angel leader.
If what you are saying is true, you'll find the following report of interest.
[/url]

The full quote from...

https://religionnews.com/2017/10/05/...s-to-violence/

Testing the proposition that lack of religion leads to violence

Turning to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report for 2016, those top six religious states rank in the top 10 when it comes to murder rate: Louisiana (1), Alabama (3), Mississippi (6), South Carolina (8), Tennessee (9), and Arkansas (10). By contrast, the four least religious states rank close to last in murder rates: New Hampshire (50), Maine (49), Massachusetts (46), and Vermont (45).

In other words, in America there is an inverse correlation between religiosity and murderousness. You might even re-paraphrase Proverbs 29:18, “When there is no vision of God, the people behave themselves.”

I did say to boxcar correlation is not proof of causality. However your statement is not correct either. You cannot say "It is usually a mistake" It requires a greater degree of evidence. For causality to be closer to a certainty. In many cases 100% certainty statistically is never reached.

Thus there can be no conclusion made regarding the existence or the direction of a cause-and-effect relationship only from the fact that A and B are correlated. Determining whether there is an actual cause-and-effect relationship requires further investigation, even when the relationship between A and B is statistically significant, a large effect size is observed, or a large part of the variance is explained.

I listed a number of very large samples including worldwide examples of decreasing homicides and decreasing USA violent crimes as religion decreases.

So there also is a statistical possibility B cause A. Or religion causes more crimes than the no religion.


IMHO it is a combination of factors. The most important is the advent of modernity:less poverty, more education, and the technological and scientific revolution. Along with at the same time, the diminishing of the superstitious and fanatical aspects of religion.

Btw , I also asked boxcar for examples showing the opposite of what I posted.

I'm waiting..