George Krikorian Drops Bombshell at CHRB Meeting

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

You will never get over "too complicated"

People under 30 can't do basic math anymore, let alone read a racing form or derive trainer intent or the other nuanced implications in PP's.

Running half as many days and a third less races might be a start, but in 20 yrs there will be very few players left.

Yet those same people under 30 dominate the poker events and fantasy sports.

Try again.

[forced89]

Originally Posted by airford1

You can build 10000 stalls and ten training centers and if the NEW OWNERS ( which you don't have) can't make money from racing horses the stalls will be empty. Don't be stupid.

There is some truth here. Unless one is lucky a good horse costs a lot of money; a good trainer at a major track charges up to $100 day; when you win a race 20% goes to trainer and jock; at a lot of tracks the vet bills are outrageous.

[jimmyb]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Is your solution to just end it?

IMO the industry has been imploding since the onset of state lotteries and casinos. In my lifetime I've seen the demise of horse racing in New England. Green Mountain, Lincoln Park, Narragansett, Rockingham, Suffolk, All the Fair Racing, Gone. Dog racing and Harness racing as well.

[FakeNameChanged]

I can see the billboards now(if still legal) or tv ads:

Races at Santa Anita will now run every 15 minutes! Ten race schedule.

Bet to WIN or finish in the first half of the field OR Finish LAST!! How Cool is that? (full disclosure, jockeys who finish last get 5 day suspension or fine)

Video poker & video horserace stations will be stationed throughout the track to complete your on track enjoyment.

Phone Apps will allow you to bet on track and collect winnings.

Watch as race unfolds via jockey/saddle helmet cams on HD screens, downloadable to your handheld device.

Bobble head Days for your favorite jocks and other promotional items.

Food stands will be McDonalds/Burger King/Kentucky FRied at regular pricing.

Shuttles run FREE from several locations.

Counselors available for chronic losers or if your jockey gives a bad ride, which occurs infrequently.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by airford1

You can build 10000 stalls and ten training centers and if the NEW OWNERS ( which you don't have) can't make money from racing horses the stalls will be empty. Don't be stupid. It's simple cause and affect, if we could make a profit racing we would and that is coming from an Ex owner with friends that are Ex owners. The old "build it and they will come " is plain stupid.

Your implication is that owning horses was once a winning endeavor. Nonsense. While I am sure that there have been many owners drawn to racing thinking that making a racing profit, few attained that goal. Many owners have been drawn to racing because they wanted to be part of the show, the excitement and pageantry. Unfortunately, the experience of running a horse in front of 3000 fans doesn't provide the same thrill as when the stands are full.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Whosonfirst

I can see the billboards now(if still legal) or tv ads:

Races at Santa Anita will now run every 15 minutes! Ten race schedule.

Bet to WIN or finish in the first half of the field OR Finish LAST!! How Cool is that? (full disclosure, jockeys who finish last get 5 day suspension or fine)

There are already laws in the book that allow exchange betting, why they don't is always a mystery to me.

Allan

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

You will never get over "too complicated"

People under 30 can't do basic math anymore, let alone read a racing form or derive trainer intent or the other nuanced implications in PP's.

Running half as many days and a third less races might be a start, but in 20 yrs there will be very few players left.

I don't really buy this. There are always going to be smart, educated people (like myself...LOL) who will be attracted to this game because it's a puzzle that can be BEATEN for PROFIT.

If there is PROFIT to be made, smart people are going to go after it.

The problem is, nobody thinks you can beat racing. Ordinary people (and even hardcore fans) think it's nothing but a shady business run by shady people and attended by even shadier folks...

The entire perception of the sport is what has led to its downfall.

[AlsoEligible]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

You will never get over "too complicated"

People under 30 can't do basic math anymore, let alone read a racing form or derive trainer intent or the other nuanced implications in PP's.

Running half as many days and a third less races might be a start, but in 20 yrs there will be very few players left.

We can (and do) debate all day long on what's hurting racing and how to fix it. Some reasons are more legitimate than others. Saying that young gamblers are too stupid to learn to handicap is one of the least legitimate I've heard.

I'm 30, and I can do basic math just fine. I can hold my own at a poker table. I pour over crazy amounts of data every summer preparing for fantasy football, analyzing as many variables (maybe more) as you'd find on a PP. And every week in the fall, I spend as much time handicapping 16 football games for daily fantasy and regular fantasy leagues as you do handicapping tomorrow's Belmont card.

My lack of interest in horse racing has nothing to do with me being too lazy or stupid to put in the work. I just don't think it's an interesting or exciting sport, it reeks of mismanagement and corruption, and carries a stigma of degenerates and desperation. If it wasn't for the fact that I worked in the industry, I couldn't care less about it...like most people my age don't.

Not sure how you fix these issues, or if they even can be fixed, but dumbing things down for millennials is not the solution. That makes sense for the first few visits as others have suggested (i.e. stick to WPS and Exactas), but long term we don't need or want things to be overly simplified. Give us a good game and we'll put in the time and effort to learn how to play it. Here's a hint: we don't give two flying shits about lowering takeout rates.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by AlsoEligible

We can (and do) debate all day long on what's hurting racing and how to fix it. Some reasons are more legitimate than others. Saying that young gamblers are too stupid to learn to handicap is one of the least legitimate I've heard.

I'm 30, and I can do basic math just fine. I can hold my own at a poker table. I pour over crazy amounts of data every summer preparing for fantasy football, analyzing as many variables (maybe more) as you'd find on a PP. And every week in the fall, I spend as much time handicapping 16 football games for daily fantasy and regular fantasy leagues as you do handicapping tomorrow's Belmont card.

My lack of interest in horse racing has nothing to do with me being too lazy or stupid to put in the work. I just don't think it's an interesting or exciting sport, it reeks of mismanagement and corruption, and carries a stigma of degenerates and desperation. If it wasn't for the fact that I worked in the industry, I couldn't care less about it...like most people my age don't.

Not sure how you fix these issues, or if they even can be fixed, but dumbing things down for millennials is not the solution. That makes sense for the first few visits as others have suggested (i.e. stick to WPS and Exactas), but long term we don't need or want things to be overly simplified. Give us a good game and we'll put in the time and effort to learn how to play it. Here's a hint: we don't give two flying shits about lowering takeout rates.

Why do you spend so much time on DFS. Do you do if for fun or do you do it to make money? Would you be as interested if they doubled the takeout on DFS?


Millennials do not give two flying shits about being able to make a profit, or there ego is so big they feel they can overcome any takeout or they are too stupid to realize that the combo of high takeouts, breakage and rebates make this game unbeatable for most(well over 90%) unless getting rebated themselves (in which case it is still tough).

[AlsoEligible]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Do you do if for fun or do you do it to make money?

Both, but I'm not playing to get rich or retire early, so if I had to pick one I'd say for fun. Having some skin in the game makes watching games more fun. Watching a sleeper pick go off is fun. Winning some money after putting in the work to analyze the games and players is fun.

Funny that these are all the same reasons why horse players enjoy betting at the track, and yet young players still aren't interested.

Would you be as interested if they doubled the takeout on DFS?

Sure. I don't think a hike from 10% to 20% would make me quit. I honestly didn't even know what the fee was until this question prompted me to look it up. I'd wonder if most DFS players know it off the top of their head.

Millennials do not give two flying shits about being able to make a profit, or there ego is so big they feel they can overcome any takeout or they are too stupid to realize that the combo of high takeouts, breakage and rebates make this game unbeatable for most(well over 90%) unless getting rebated themselves (in which case it is still tough).

For a new gambler who is looking at horse racing and deciding if it's where they want to spend their money, takeout is not a primary consideration. Once they're waist deep in the game, then sure, you'd start paying attention to that and want to play tracks or pools where you can retain more of your bankroll.

Hardcore players always list takeout as a top problem because it is to them. But there are so many other reasons why a new player wouldn't want to spend their money and time on this sport, takeout is practically irrelevant in that discussion.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Yet those same people under 30 dominate the poker events and fantasy sports.

Try again.

No comparison. Poker hands and PP's ? Especially when you don't wait 20 min between poker hands

[airford1]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Your implication is that owning horses was once a winning endeavor. Nonsense. While I am sure that there have been many owners drawn to racing thinking that making a racing profit, few attained that goal. Many owners have been drawn to racing because they wanted to be part of the show, the excitement and pageantry. Unfortunately, the experience of running a horse in front of 3000 fans doesn't provide the same thrill as when the stands are full.

All I'm asking is that the owners have some tax breaks to offset the losing. Kill the Sport and the state will lose the total tax base. Give the owners a chance to offset some of the lose in a real effort to increase the number of entries which will drive the whole industry. Pretty simple really.

[Vinnie]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

https://twitter.com/RacingOnion/stat...10382486732800

Love it JR!!!

[dilanesp]

One way or another there are going to be far fewer racing dates in SoCal. Krikorian just has a better proposal on how to do it. But if we don't go to one circuit, SA is just going to give up racing dates over time and Allred will decide to stop losing money on TB's at Los Al.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by airford1

All I'm asking is that the owners have some tax breaks to offset the losing. Kill the Sport and the state will lose the total tax base. Give the owners a chance to offset some of the lose in a real effort to increase the number of entries which will drive the whole industry. Pretty simple really.

Sounds like you are or were an owner.

I doubt it was because of the tax breaks because no one goes in wanting to lose money.

So, what reasons or circumstances brought you to become an owner and in the same line of thinking what caused you to leave?

The reasons probably haven't changed, so we should focus on those.