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Old 06-07-2017, 03:39 PM   #31
JohnGalt1
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Reading this thread is the best example I've seen of why this game is heading in the crapper. Even people connected with the game don't make sense to me.

Mr. Bowker said we can make a $2 pick six wager at twenty cent increments to collect 10% of the pot.

A better at Gulfstream can make $2 pick six and collect 10 times the pot if not the only winner of the sucker jackpot bet.

Apples to apples.

And why does everyone want lower minimums on everything.

Today $2 win bet in the 1930's would be worth twelve cents more or less today. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tracks have screwed around with take out, their betting menus, and the minimum unit and pay out structures, (sucker jackpots,) so much that I'm about 85% win and exacta player now.

It's all about winning and churn.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:45 PM   #32
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:47 PM   #33
Andy Asaro
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Originally Posted by JohnGalt1 View Post
Reading this thread is the best example I've seen of why this game is heading in the crapper. Even people connected with the game don't make sense to me.

Mr. Bowker said we can make a $2 pick six wager at twenty cent increments to collect 10% of the pot.

A better at Gulfstream can make $2 pick six and collect 10 times the pot if not the only winner of the sucker jackpot bet.

Apples to apples.

And why does everyone want lower minimums on everything.

Today $2 win bet in the 1930's would be worth twelve cents more or less today. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tracks have screwed around with take out, their betting menus, and the minimum unit and pay out structures, (sucker jackpots,) so much that I'm about 85% win and exacta player now.

It's all about winning and churn.
Right on. Concentrate on selling higher churn wagers. Pay penny breakage on WPS to start. Lower exacta take to 16%. Monitor, adjust, monitor, adjust. And always be innovating.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:51 PM   #34
AndyC
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California is different than most jurisdictions. They've been fighting like hell to keep it at $2. Fifty cents is the lowest they'll go.

Only 10 cent wager should be a Pick 8 Jackpot at Del Mar instead of a place pick all. 15% take with 10% to jackpot

IMO of course.
I was speaking about the P-5, P-4 and P-3. Keep the $2 P-6. What matters with the minimums is the effect on handle. If 10 cents is the magic number then so be it.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:53 PM   #35
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I was speaking about the P-5, P-4 and P-3. Keep the $2 P-6. What matters with the minimums is the effect on handle. If 10 cents is the magic number then so be it.
Lowest is 50 cents IMO. There would be so much backlash, especially in races where short fields are the new normal, would be severe.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:59 PM   #36
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If the racetracks are willing to take the gamble on lowering takeout & wager minimums, IMO the Horseman should also be willing to try. 1/2
— Harris D. Auerbach (@AuerHeat) June 7, 2017

Unfortunately this attitude is about 15 years too late to make a difference. Many of the customers have already died or moved on to better gambles. I doubt that many (of the live ones) would reverse course and come back based on even a large take-out decrease.

I would expect that exchange wagering will be welcomed in about 2025.
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Old 06-07-2017, 04:01 PM   #37
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Lowest is 50 cents IMO. There would be so much backlash, especially in races where short fields are the new normal, would be severe.
When you can test for the best there is no reason to rely on opinion. Where would the backlash come from?
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Old 06-07-2017, 04:01 PM   #38
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Unfortunately this attitude is about 15 years too late to make a difference. Many of the customers have already died or moved on to better gambles. I doubt that many (of the live ones) would reverse course and come back based on even a large take-out decrease.

I would expect that exchange wagering will be welcomed in about 2025.
Yes, I doubt exchange wagering will happen in this decade. The Stronach Group can turn it around if they want to. That won't be up to Ritvo it will be up to Belinda.
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Old 06-07-2017, 05:00 PM   #39
RobertCalifornia
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Minimum bets might be a problem, $2 was a lot of money 50 years ago, but not today. The people bet $2 that can easily spend $1000 on a slot machine. Raise expectations. Plus say $10 win bet posting bigger numbers is sexier compared to other tracks posting $2 winners.
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Old 06-07-2017, 05:28 PM   #40
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Lowering the minimum is wrong-minded. I would go the other way. $5 pick 6 at 10% takeout. Whether the small player plays a $64 pick 6 at $2 min or a $60 ticket at $5 min, it's basically a "Hail Mary" or a "Lottery" investment. Chances are virtually nothing they will hit either. These are dreamer bets (which I've made my share). Making it harder for the syndicate type wagers to hit would create the carryovers So Cal desperately wants.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:24 PM   #41
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Lowering the minimum is wrong-minded. I would go the other way. $5 pick 6 at 10% takeout. Whether the small player plays a $64 pick 6 at $2 min or a $60 ticket at $5 min, it's basically a "Hail Mary" or a "Lottery" investment. Chances are virtually nothing they will hit either. These are dreamer bets (which I've made my share). Making it harder for the syndicate type wagers to hit would create the carryovers So Cal desperately wants.
That just gives a much bigger edge to the syndicate player that you are trying to get out of the pool. The general public will be stuck playing even less combos and the syndicate player will get value on a whole lot more combinations then they every did before. They will just come up with more money to bet. The general public can't.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:47 PM   #42
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The best way to go is to NOT HAVE CARRYOVERS and pay out the pool on the spot....this is the fairest thing to do...the Pick 6 that I agree to bet today should not be allowed to become the Pick 6 tomorrow....I may not like that card or maybe wont even be able to bet...

I'm betting a specific sequence of racing today only and expect to be rewarded today if I am successful against other bettors that are here today as well....If no one gets 6 then pay out to 5 and so on, BUT PAY OUT TODAY!

There would be less incentive for whales to get involved and possibly less shenanigans knowing that some huge pool is just ripe for the pickings....more of the bettors' money would be returned to MANY MORE of them immediately to do with as they please, most likely creating more churn....
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:11 PM   #43
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The best way to go is to NOT HAVE CARRYOVERS and pay out the pool on the spot....this is the fairest thing to do...the Pick 6 that I agree to bet today should not be allowed to become the Pick 6 tomorrow....I may not like that card or maybe wont even be able to bet...

I'm betting a specific sequence of racing today only and expect to be rewarded today if I am successful against other bettors that are here today as well....If no one gets 6 then pay out to 5 and so on, BUT PAY OUT TODAY!

There would be less incentive for whales to get involved and possibly less shenanigans knowing that some huge pool is just ripe for the pickings....more of the bettors' money would be returned to MANY MORE of them immediately to do with as they please, most likely creating more churn....
Please stop
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:34 PM   #44
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... “We’ve been so entrenched in the old way of doing things,” he said. “We have to look at ourselves first. We have to give the customer what they want, not what we want.”

Ritvo discussed subjects such as takeout rates and fractional wagering, an innovation that essentially drops the minimum bet size to as low as pennies for wagers such as the pick six. He discussed base purses that synchronize with field size – the bigger the field, the higher the purse. He addressed modernization of the racing department, inventory control, and a variety of other subjects that can be addressed as the remainder of 2017 unfolds.

Below are Ritvo’s thoughts on a number of issues facing Santa Anita. Ritvo doesn’t have all the answers yet, but just that he is willing to discuss a subject such as takeout is important. ...

Critics allege that racing offices are unaware of available horse inventory. It is tough to keep track of some 3,000 horses and the races in which they could run without technology. Most of the work is done by hand. Ritvo envisions change.

“We have to do a much better job of inventory control,” he said. We are going to do a better data analysis.”

Ritvo wants a centralized racing office able to receive entries online. “At 11, tell [the horsemen] what races are going, one last shot to go in, and that’s it. Not – who is in there? How many horses do I have to beat? That stuff has got to end.


Interviews have begun for a data analyst, a computer-skilled employee who can execute modernization of the racing department. ...
Each one of the 5 points highlighted above has been discussed on here many months ago and probably several times. Hopefully, he really believes these ideas and will work to make the necessary changes.

Thanks for providing the link.
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:36 PM   #45
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Each one of the 5 points highlighted above has been discussed on here many months ago and probably several times. Hopefully, he really believes these ideas and will work to make the necessary changes.

Thanks for providing the link.
The TOC will fight like hell against him behind the scenes.
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