Ritvo era begins at Santa Anita. “Takeout is too high, no question about it"

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

The TOC will fight like hell against him behind the scenes.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The race tracks are the greedy ones. The TOC are the innocents just going along with the track greed. It's been apparent for a number of years.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Often when you read these threads you'll hear, lower the minimums and you'll increase handle. The question is, who has done the optimal pricing study and what did it conclude? And I've commented that 100,000 combinations at 10 cents is the same as 10,000 combinations at a dollar, and considering there are far fewer combinations covered at a dollar, the payoffs could be more attractive. But if we weren't guessing and there was a study that showed a dime or a quarter or a half dollar maximized handle, I'd adjust my thinking. Still, it's a low churn bet and that alone is enough to make me think a dollar minimum is a better plan.

My feeling is leave the bets like the Pick-6 to the whales and the syndicates. Put them in those pools, maybe see the higher churn potential pools populated by the smaller bettors, and make the minimum for the P6 high enough to scare the guys with nothing larger than a few twenties in their pockets into sticking with the bets they have a real chance of hitting.

It sounds like Ritvo is at least throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks. But I can't say I am wildly optimistic.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

http://www.drf.com/news/ritvo-town-changes-are-way

Excerpt:

Takeout

“Takeout is too high, there’s no question about it,” Ritvo said. “It’s the scariest thing in the world [for racetracks] because our revenue streams are so limited. We can’t take 20 percent from a customer and expect them to bet day in and day out. The introduction of new bets with reduced takeout brings down the blend a little bit, but it’s not the answer.”

The pick-five takeout at Santa Anita is 14 percent; it is higher for other exotic wagers. Takeout for two-horse exotic wagers is 22.68 percent; three or more is 23.68 percent.

Wagering

Ritvo is interested in fractional wagering, which allows small-bankrolled bettors access to wagers that typically require a high outlay. For example, a $2 pick six with two horses in each leg costs $128. Allowing bettors to wager on the pick six in 25-cent increments would reduce the outlay for the above ticket to $16.
Ritvo said he and other Santa Anita officials are discussing fractional wagering and that the tote system is capable of handling the change.

I'm sure Ritvo means well and any comment about the takeout being too high is good, but I keep reading how he turned Md racing around when it was the casino money that turned around Md racing. Here are some of the takeouts at Lrl and Pim. Wps 18% Ex 21% Tri 25.75% P3 25.75% P4 25.75% P5 12%.If you blended the takeout on all the bets it may be higher than Santa Anita.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

I'm sure Ritvo means well and any comment about the takeout being too high is good, but I keep reading how he turned Md racing around when it was the casino money that turned around Md racing. Here are some of the takeouts at Lrl and Pim. Wps 18% Ex 21% Tri 25.75% P3 25.75% P4 25.75% P5 12%.If you blended the takeout on all the bets it may be higher than Santa Anita.

Ca. Racing is much different than any other jurisdiction. Requires different solutions IMO

[Dave Schwartz]

Interesting read at LA Times.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/more/l...605-story.html

The word "Takeout" is never mentioned.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Interesting read at LA Times.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/more/l...605-story.html

The word "Takeout" is never mentioned.

Brad Free article was posted yesterday where he mentions takeout.

[Dave Schwartz]

Brad Free article was posted yesterday where he mentions takeout.

My take on the DRF article re: takeout was that the EXOTICS were too high and needed to be lowered.

But I do admit that I am reading between the lines.

Was your take different?

[toddbowker]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Technically you are certainly correct but practically lowering the minimum does essentially the same thing.

Originally Posted by Poindexter

How is this different? If it is $2 pick six and I want to play it for 10%, then it becomes a 20 cent pick six for me, if want to play it for 5% then it becomes a 10 cent pick six for me. Now maybe they can stipulate that you can only do so if you play 50 or more combos and you cant go below x %, but it in essence is basically lowering the minimum bet amount, no matter how you spin it.

Only to the extent of the price of the minimum wager. Unless you can lower the minimum bet to a fraction of a penny, it's more than just "technically" different.

With fractional betting you could in theory bet 100% off all of the available P6 combinations for $1.00 (or less even) as long as the rules allowed.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

The best way to go is to NOT HAVE CARRYOVERS and pay out the pool on the spot....this is the fairest thing to do...the Pick 6 that I agree to bet today should not be allowed to become the Pick 6 tomorrow....I may not like that card or maybe wont even be able to bet...

I'm betting a specific sequence of racing today only and expect to be rewarded today if I am successful against other bettors that are here today as well....If no one gets 6 then pay out to 5 and so on, BUT PAY OUT TODAY!

There would be less incentive for whales to get involved and possibly less shenanigans knowing that some huge pool is just ripe for the pickings....more of the bettors' money would be returned to MANY MORE of them immediately to do with as they please, most likely creating more churn....

They tried a no carryover format in the late '80's, and handle went down.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

My take on the DRF article re: takeout was that the EXOTICS were too high and needed to be lowered.

But I do admit that I am reading between the lines.

Was your take different?

More specifically exacta takeout is too high. 18.5% at Belmont but 22.68% at Santa Anita.

I am pushing to lower exacta take below that of Belmont to an eye catching 16% and to pay to the penny on WPS breakage and to make the minimum show payoff $2.05. This helps churn, sends home more winners and that helps positive word of mouth. Those should be the first steps to take. The math of it makes handle go up (if everything else stayed the same, which it won't) handle would have to go up approximately 30% on exactas. I think that's an easy mark to hit. Additionally it may cannibalize tri's/supers. However the gamblers who download the Ca PP's would increase and withing a relatively short amount of time revenue would be up including on Tri's/Supers.

[Andy Asaro]

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/2017...ng-horse-races

Excerpt:

Ritvo has stressed since his arrival that the Stronach Group’s main objective, while re-energizing the track’s business, is to cater to the customers.

“The customer is the economic engine of the sport,” Ritvo said in an interview with the Southern California News Group this week. “Everybody thinks they’re irreplaceable, but the guy who’s irreplaceable is the customer. When he’s gone, everything else will stop.”

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Last edited by Andy Asaro; 06-10-2017 at 08:49 AM.

[Andy Asaro]

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Last edited by Andy Asaro; 06-11-2017 at 12:28 PM.

[Andy Asaro]

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[Andy Asaro]

Ritvo Weighs in on So Cal Horse Population | TDN |

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...se-population/

[whodoyoulike]

I've mentioned a couple of times already that we've discussed these concerns a number of times the last couple years.

I suspect he is a member on here or at least reads our posts maybe he'll be willing to participate in a "Live Chat Room" on here. It would be like a "brainstorming session".

I see some positives by doing so BUT, it could also result in a number of people being banned.