JC report on CRW wagering

[GMB@BP]

http://www.drf.com/news/jockey-club-...g-small-tracks

So about half way they talk about the CRW teams and impact on pools, takeout, the need for the fish to feed the whales.

I do give them credit, not even trying to hide it anymore.

So if they are targeting the 4 biggest tracks (circuits), and that’s pretty easy to discern who it is, then I will start scouring the smaller tracks where it makes the most sense.

[Tom]

I am looking at Prx, Ind, Elp, Tdn, FP as my main track. On TVG during the week, smaller track, but looks to have good field sizes.
I am tired of NYRA and small fields scratching down to smaller ones, turf sprints and a ridiculous number of grass races for cows.

You can have the main tracks.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Tom

I am looking at Prx, Ind, Elp, Tdn, FP as my main track. On TVG during the week, smaller track, but looks to have good field sizes.
I am tired of NYRA and small fields scratching down to smaller ones, turf sprints and a ridiculous number of grass races for cows.

You can have the main tracks.

I am liking Emerald Downs, track seems to fit my handicapping style.

[jay68802]

Targeting the larger pools comes as no surprise. However, they will show up at the smaller tracks in the right circumstances. For a long time I studied Delta Downs and would see a sudden increase in the WPS and total handle in one race on a card. It was inconsistent but did happen regularly.

"The robotic programs are not profitable without significant rebates on their handle, and use of the programs is controversial in the racing industry. But most racetracks have welcomed the programs into their pools because of their often astounding volume, even though most racing officials acknowledge that the programs enjoy extraordinary advantages over regular players and that they often have a deleterious impact on casual players."

Interesting quote from the article. The tracks know that the rebates prop up these teams and that the teams have a negative impact an the rest of their customers. Shows the short sighted nature the tracks have about the game, and also a true disregard for the growth of the game in whole.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Targeting the larger pools comes as no surprise. However, they will show up at the smaller tracks in the right circumstances. For a long time I studied Delta Downs and would see a sudden increase in the WPS and total handle in one race on a card. It was inconsistent but did happen regularly.

"The robotic programs are not profitable without significant rebates on their handle, and use of the programs is controversial in the racing industry. But most racetracks have welcomed the programs into their pools because of their often astounding volume, even though most racing officials acknowledge that the programs enjoy extraordinary advantages over regular players and that they often have a deleterious impact on casual players."

Interesting quote from the article. The tracks know that the rebates prop up these teams and that the teams have a negative impact an the rest of their customers. Shows the short sighted nature the tracks have about the game, and also a true disregard for the growth of the game in whole.

It doesnt get any more black and white to say we need the smaller customer to pay the higher rates (taxed more) to support the crw teams profits.

you think anyone in the upper management of this game would see the long term disaster that they are creating.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

It doesnt get any more black and white to say we need the smaller customer to pay the higher rates (taxed more) to support the crw teams profits.

you think anyone in the upper management of this game would see the long term disaster that they are creating.

I believe this is called "Blinkers On" syndrome.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Targeting the larger pools comes as no surprise. However, they will show up at the smaller tracks in the right circumstances. For a long time I studied Delta Downs and would see a sudden increase in the WPS and total handle in one race on a card. It was inconsistent but did happen regularly.

"The robotic programs are not profitable without significant rebates on their handle, and use of the programs is controversial in the racing industry. But most racetracks have welcomed the programs into their pools because of their often astounding volume, even though most racing officials acknowledge that the programs enjoy extraordinary advantages over regular players and that they often have a deleterious impact on casual players."

Interesting quote from the article. The tracks know that the rebates prop up these teams and that the teams have a negative impact an the rest of their customers. Shows the short sighted nature the tracks have about the game, and also a true disregard for the growth of the game in whole.

and people wonder why I am so pro exchange wagering.

Only Monmouth has seen the light.

every other track is in the dark ages of ripping off bettors.

Allan

[AltonKelsey]

Exch Wagering cant come soon enough to all states.



Taking way too long


I still say giving someone a 7% discount is an unfair advantage.


How would you feel if they gave someone a zero takeout account?

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

and people wonder why I am so pro exchange wagering.

Only Monmouth has seen the light.

every other track is in the dark ages of ripping off bettors.

Allan

well, if the tracks have to support a system that feeds the whales, how are they going to make a switch that does not accomplish that goal?

[GMB@BP]

Article on Single Pool that is mentioned.

Its a bit confusing to me how this benefits the crw teams as I thought they were very good at finding inefficiencies. Maybe since the pools will be a lot less volatile.

http://www.drf.com/news/single-pool-...it-too-complex

[AlsoEligible]

In fact, Gagliano said in his own Round Table presentation that the market share of the programs has a mathematical limit in that “they need recreational players in the pool to be profitable and to continue betting.” The programs most often target the pools at the highest-handling tracks because the programs need to have large pools in order to properly estimate the impact of their bets on payouts, which is also why they dump their bets at the last possible moment before a race goes off.

Gagliano said experts estimate that the programs would hit the mathematical limit at a market share of 20 percent. [Currently estimated at 16-19 percent]

“So, we may be nearing the limits of the growth in computer wagering that we’ve seen over the past seven years,” Gagliano said. “If so, overall handle will decline again in the future unless racing can grow handle from recreational bettors.”

That's a very ominous prediction. If I'm reading that correctly, they're saying that most of the uptick we've seen year over year since 2011 can be attributed to CRW. But the whales will soon run out of room to grow, at which point the industry is going to be relying on all the little fish (which the whales are actively driving away) to come back, and bring their friends. Otherwise we can expect handle to start dipping again like we saw from 2004-2011.

That seems like quite a longshot. Between this and the rise of sports betting, could be some very dark days ahead for racing.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by AlsoEligible

That's a very ominous prediction. If I'm reading that correctly, they're saying that most of the uptick we've seen year over year since 2011 can be attributed to CRW. But the whales will soon run out of room to grow, at which point the industry is going to be relying on all the little fish (which the whales are actively driving away) to come back, and bring their friends. Otherwise we can expect handle to start dipping again like we saw from 2004-2011.

That seems like quite a longshot. Between this and the rise of sports betting, could be some very dark days ahead for racing.

Not only is it ominous, but in response to the "uptick" in handle part...Handle was $15 billion in 2004, $10.8 billion in 2011 and $10.9 billion last year. That uptick added back about 2% of the $4 billion-plus that left the pools between 2004 and 2011. Was it really worth it? If the answer is that handle would have been $7 billion now, then racing is screwed anyway---just delaying the inevitable. I never believed that racing was doomed before but it's looking more bleak that I imagined if THIS is considered the "boom" period....

[NJ Stinks]

It's not easy justifying this hobby....

If a table-playing high roller at the casino gets a comp, does the casino expect the $10 table player to pay for it? Or does the casino believe it will beat the high roller over an extended period of time?

How come this racing game is so screwed up in this country?

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe they need to start going all-in on fan education and REEDUCATION...also, promote the hell out of WINNERS...promote the hell out of the guys that win those big tourneys.

Start pooling some money to sponsor hour long TV programs on some halfway decent cable channel that shows guys winning a couple of hundred grand playing a tourney...find a winning player somewhere, ANYWHERE, that isn't afraid of promoting himself...do a special on him or her.

PROMOTE THE BEATABILITY OF THE GAME.

That's what sets it apart from most other gambling games out there.

There are winners out there. Find them. And show the world that it can be done.

That will get people interested...

Hell, do a documentary on the CRW teams...yeah, I know, they don't want the publicity...has anyone gone out with a camera and a show in mind and ASKED?

[thaskalos]

So, the "Round Table's" recommendation is that the onerous takeouts on the exotics should remain untouched...because the generous rebates that go out to the computer groups leave no adequate profit margin behind to justify such a reduction. But they want to "encourage" more 'regular-guy' participation...because the computer groups need more suckers to fleece. And this coming from the brain-trust that has been assigned the responsibility of "fixing" this game.

What a farce this game has become.