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Old 05-20-2018, 10:44 PM   #46
elysiantraveller
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I'm sure Powell had reasons for advising against taking down Saddam, but he was hardly the only one in the administration.

It was quite clear at the time that our Arab allies in the region had no desire or goal to do anything other than liberate Kuwait. It was feared that we would be largely on our own. The lack of Arabs allies would make us look like the Crusaders.

Also, many in the administration were convinced that taking out Saddam without a replacement government ready to take control would result in sectarian violence. What a wild and crazy thought!
Nevermind the fact that Total War is a pretty rare thing. Wars are usually fought over pretty limited aims.

The Liberation of Kuwait being one of them. Just Cause, Odyssey Dawn, Inherent Resolve... a few that spring to mind.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:58 PM   #47
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Nevermind the fact that Total War is a pretty rare thing. Wars are usually fought over pretty limited aims.

The Liberation of Kuwait being one of them. Just Cause, Odyssey Dawn, Inherent Resolve... a few that spring to mind.
Exactly. We and our allies had planned for the liberation of Kuwait. We had no plans or agreements or resources in place to go any further.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:02 AM   #48
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This is good news.

However, I can't help but feel all this going on with N. Korea is EXACTLY what ol' Kim wants. He's now being treated as a BIG BOY on the BIG STAGE.

He's leveraged his nuclear weapons program into becoming a major player and is now set to meet with the POTUS.

He is now, for all intents and purposes, being taken seriously, which is what he's always wanted, no?

Kim's plan has worked to perfection as far as I can tell.
Props for being one that saw the game for what it is.

Kim is using the goodwill he's built up to weaken the coalition against his regime while backing out of the summit.

Playing everybody.

Meanwhile... John Bolton...

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Old 05-24-2018, 10:49 AM   #49
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Props for being one that saw the game for what it is.

Kim is using the goodwill he's built up to weaken the coalition against his regime while backing out of the summit.

Playing everybody.

Meanwhile... John Bolton...

Who exactly in your estimation doesn't see Kim as a weasel? Who did he play?
Does that mean we should never talk to him in case they want change? You seem stuck on the idea that people cannot change opinions and that we should simply wait for organic change to occur without influencing it. My thoughts are that if you seek change, step in and help it along according to your best self interests. In this case, it didn't work out, but you don't know it until you try. I also think putting Kim on the same level as Trump is overstated by a large degree. Everyone sees Kim as they always have.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:20 AM   #50
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Who exactly in your estimation doesn't see Kim as a weasel? Who did he play?
Does that mean we should never talk to him in case they want change? You seem stuck on the idea that people cannot change opinions and that we should simply wait for organic change to occur without influencing it. My thoughts are that if you seek change, step in and help it along according to your best self interests. In this case, it didn't work out, but you don't know it until you try. I also think putting Kim on the same level as Trump is overstated by a large degree. Everyone sees Kim as they always have.
There wasn't a slam on Trump in there... in case you didn't notice that.

PA gets props for noticing how "friendly" they acted in the lead-up and called shenanigans... while others were calling for a Peace Prize.

Nothing to do with Trump.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:23 AM   #51
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... while others were calling for a Peace Prize.

Not likely. Summit cancelled.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:37 AM   #52
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Not likely. Summit cancelled.
King takes Bishop...



Meeting will happen sometime before 2020.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:59 AM   #53
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Meeting will happen sometime before 2020.

Not unless somebody blinks on a major issue. Trump wants to negotiate denuclearization, Lil' Kim says that is not on the table for discussion.
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:55 PM   #54
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China is at the bottom of this.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:11 PM   #55
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China is at the bottom of this.
Who? Say again?

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Old 05-24-2018, 01:41 PM   #56
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Nevermind the fact that Total War is a pretty rare thing. Wars are usually fought over pretty limited aims.

The Liberation of Kuwait being one of them. Just Cause, Odyssey Dawn, Inherent Resolve... a few that spring to mind.
Don't forget Urgent Fury when we simply crushed the brave Grenadians.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:03 PM   #57
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Don't forget Urgent Fury when we simply crushed the brave Grenadians.
Grenadians -> Grenada -> Grenade

We're lucky we aren't still over there...
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:25 PM   #58
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Decent analysis of the breakdown on the daily beast.

Back to Square One With North Korea—and That’s a Good Thing
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:17 PM   #59
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China is at the bottom of this.
................and the middle.
Oh, and don't forget the top.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:02 PM   #60
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Not unless somebody blinks on a major issue. Trump wants to negotiate denuclearization, Lil' Kim says that is not on the table for discussion.
Blink?

SEOUL, May 27 (Reuters) - North Korean leader Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his commitment to "complete" denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and to a planned meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump, South Korean President Moon Jae-in said on Sunday.
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