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09-19-2017, 02:55 PM
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#106
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linrom1
... Jonathon Kinchen who is called 'people champion' by DRF Peter Fornatale is basically insinuating that racism is playing a role in Navarro scandal, because if he was white, this matter would be treated differently?
...public handicapper like Nick Tammaro who said this on twitter: "Whether you like Navarro or not, and I don't know him one bit, you can't refuse his entries for being caught on video with a loudmouth owner."
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Kinchen is wrong. Has nothing to do with race, a ridiculous claim. It's pretty clear that guys like Jamie Ness have had an equal amount of backlash when he was winning 17 races out 20 entries a few years ago.
Tammaro is also wrong. I'd like to know why they "can't" refuse his entries. This is what is wrong with this game. People think tracks are or should be bound by absolute proof and due process. I argue that integrity and the perception (or lack thereof) of whatever integrity exits is the #1 priority. When the leading trainer is speaking that way, he is doing so without regard to the impact of integrity this has and ultimately the erosion of customer base due to to it. If nothing legal is in jeopardy, I'd ban any trainer or owner who puts integrity in question.
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09-19-2017, 03:02 PM
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#107
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Phantom
Kinchen is wrong. Has nothing to do with race, a ridiculous claim. It's pretty clear that guys like Jamie Ness have had an equal amount of backlash when he was winning 17 races out 20 entries a few years ago.
Tammaro is also wrong. I'd like to know why they "can't" refuse his entries. This is what is wrong with this game. People think tracks are or should be bound by absolute proof and due process. I argue that integrity and the perception (or lack thereof) of whatever integrity exits is the #1 priority. When the leading trainer is speaking that way, he is doing so without regard to the impact of integrity this has and ultimately the erosion of customer base due to to it. If nothing legal is in jeopardy, I'd ban any trainer or owner who puts integrity in question.
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I want to agree with you but aside from joking while he knew he was being recorded what did Navarro do wrong on the tape?
It looks horrible but lots of things look horrible in this sport.
I can't stand Navarro and I try and avoid any race he has a horse entered but don't i wouldn't want to see people being banned for joking.
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09-19-2017, 03:37 PM
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#108
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
I don't think either guy supports Navarro. I'll let Nick speak for himself if he decides to but I actually agree with him.
Navarro is terrible for the game. But a video of him joking with an owner (about a horse that he didn't even train) when they both knew they were being taped has led tracks to deny him entries.
Seems pretty unfair to me.
Again, the quicker Navarro is gone, the better the game will be IMO, but I don't think he did anything wrong on that tape besides being an obnoxious douchebag.
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Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better. With regards to the Indiana incident that I was referencing, they took the entry and only after taking it informed him he wouldn't be licensed because he had subsequently been fined in NJ. That gave the owner no time to transfer him to another owner and forced to scratch.
After the above referenced tweet, I subsequently went onto tweet that I do not think Jorge Navarro is good for the game, but would like to see something done that would get him out of it that had more substance.
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09-19-2017, 03:41 PM
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#109
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Phantom
Kinchen is wrong. Has nothing to do with race, a ridiculous claim. It's pretty clear that guys like Jamie Ness have had an equal amount of backlash when he was winning 17 races out 20 entries a few years ago.
Tammaro is also wrong. I'd like to know why they "can't" refuse his entries. This is what is wrong with this game. People think tracks are or should be bound by absolute proof and due process. I argue that integrity and the perception (or lack thereof) of whatever integrity exits is the #1 priority. When the leading trainer is speaking that way, he is doing so without regard to the impact of integrity this has and ultimately the erosion of customer base due to to it. If nothing legal is in jeopardy, I'd ban any trainer or owner who puts integrity in question.
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It must get drafty up on that high horse.
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09-19-2017, 04:20 PM
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#110
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
I know of instances at 2 different tracks where the trainer and owner told the racing sec they won't race if Navarro's entries do. This is exactly what the owners and trainers of horses entered in the PA Derby should do. This is what they need to continue to do against not just Navarro but others that they have good belief would constitute an unfair playing field.
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I'm hoping Mr Faux Insider finds time after his afternoon swim to give us more details on what tracks this happened at.
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09-19-2017, 04:26 PM
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#111
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,202
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I wouldn't hesitate to give Navarro horses to train .......
__________________
I hate losing more than I love winning......
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09-19-2017, 05:25 PM
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe
I just view it differently. Indiana Grand would not let him run until the NJ situation is cleared up. Laurel did not either, despite the horse entering and running under another trainer. 1 of the 3 stewards in NY are trying to move in that direction as well. My point is that other jurisdictions are making a stand despite no suspension from NJ, just the fine. I think that is a good move.
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Well, the horsemen at Laurel did take a stand and their signature sprint race on Saturday's card scratched down to 4.
Racing doesn't have a Jorge Navarro problem. Racing has a drug problem. Ban Dutrow, ban Navarro, ban Ness, there will always be someone right behind them in line ready with his needles and his owner's blessing.
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09-19-2017, 08:58 PM
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215
It must get drafty up on that high horse.
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If that is how you take my response, so be it. I've put just as many hours into this game over 30 years as you have and I think this dismissive attitude towards the game is the cancer that is eroding it day by day. If you want to act as if this is nothing significant, you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to think this is a microcosm (or maybe a full blown example) of how low American racing has allowed itself to get. While he may be joking in the video, his middle finger to American racing over the years with obvious nefarious activity is sickening. I think it is people like this that have taken the game to unimaginable depths. If you see nothing wrong with that, we'll agree to disagree.
As a counter to that despicable attitude, why don't you give a look at this video regarding Winx and the connections associated if you want to remind yourself what true class looks like.
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09-20-2017, 01:46 PM
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#114
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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09-20-2017, 02:20 PM
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#115
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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Gindi getting out
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09-20-2017, 02:22 PM
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#116
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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09-20-2017, 03:20 PM
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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09-20-2017, 03:48 PM
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#118
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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TVG analyst chimes in
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09-20-2017, 04:05 PM
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
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I will buy everyone of his horses if he gives me a written guarantee they run at the same level of competition that they currently run at with Navarro. Since 1 of 11 claims from Navarro at MP this year went on to win another race after the claim I would think Monster Racing wouldn't put anything into writing, ever. Adios amigos....racing beat you!
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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09-20-2017, 04:31 PM
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#120
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthecreek
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that is asinine but I guess not surprising
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