Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins – The God Delusion

capriciously malevolent

God claims credit for good and evil
Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? KJV

Praise God for evil disasters
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? KJV

Who else, but God, unleashes the wicked?
Job 9:23 – 24 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent. The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he? KJV

God created wicked people so he could cause trouble
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. KJV

God creates disabled people
Exodus 4:11 And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? KJV

God gave Israel bad commandments, and punished them for it!
Ezekiel 20:25 – 26 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord. KJV

God hardened hearts of the neighboring kingdoms, then destroyed them for that
Joshua 11:20 For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses. KJV

God will affect you with every melody, named and unnamed
Deuteronomy 28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. KJV

God punishes the widows and orphans of nonbelievers
Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. KJV

God promised to destroy his people who worshipped someone else…
Exodus 32:7 – 10 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’”
“I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-neckedpeople. Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.” NIV

...But then changed his mind
Exodus 32:11 – 14 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened. NIV

God restrained himself and changed his mind
Ezekiel 20:21 – 22 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth. KJV

The Lord backtracked about his announced disaster
Jeremiah 26:19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah or anyone else in Judah put him to death? Did not Hezekiah fear the Lord and seek his favor? And did not the Lord relent, so that he did not bring the disaster he pronounced against them? We are about to bring a terrible disaster on ourselves! NIV

The Lord regretted his decision
1 Samuel 15:10 – 11 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night. KJV

Are you trying to prove something here?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Are you trying to prove something here?

He is trying to prove to you that he has recently been reading the bible as often as you have. As the Doc likes to say: "Scratch an atheist...and you get a fundamentalist".

[Actor]

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins – The God Delusion

bully

Bullying with flood
Exodus 15:6 – 8 Thy right hand, O Lord, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O Lord, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea. KJV

Bullying with earthquake
Ezekiel 38:19 – 20 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. KJV

Bullying with rain, hail, fire and brimstone
Ezekiel 38:22 – 23 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord. KJV

Bullying with sickness
Deuteronomy 28:58 – 59 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, The Lord Thy God; Then the Lord will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. KJV

Bullying with pestilence
Exodus 9:15 – 16 For by now I could have put forth my hand and struck you and your people with pestilence, and you would have been cut off from the earth; but for this purpose have I let you live, to show you my power, so that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. RSV

Bullying with plague, pestilence and earthquake
Habakkuk 3:3 – 6 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet. He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting. KJV

Bullying with pestilence and bloodshed
Ezekiel 28:22 – 23 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Zidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee: and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her. For I will send into her pestilence, and blood into her streets; and the wounded shall be judged in the midst of her by the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know that I am the Lord. KJV

Bullying with deception, defiling and horror
Ezekiel 20:25 – 26 Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify them; I did it that they might know that I am the Lord. RSV

Bullying with ultimate censorship
Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death. KJV

Bullying with corpses and calamity
Ezekiel 6:5 – 10 And I will lay the dead carcases of the children of Israel before their idols; and I will scatter your bones round about your altars…And the slain shall fall in the midst of you, and ye shall know that I am the Lord…And they shall know that I am the Lord, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them. KJV

Bullying with terrorism
Isaiah 2:19 And men shall enter the caves of the rocks and the holes of the ground, from before the terror of the Lord, and from the glory of his majesty, when he rises to terrify the earth. RSV

Bullying with killing
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. KJV

“I am stronger than you”
Job 40:6 – 9 Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? KJV

“Let’s see you try to be as majestic and angry as I am”
Job 40:10 – 14 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. KJV

“Ha, ha!” God laughs at his victims
Job 9:22 – 23 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked. If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent. KJV

“How dare you disagree with me!”Job 40:1 – 2 And the Lord said to Job: Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it. RSV

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Are you trying to prove something here?

"Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda

It's taken me 19 posts but I have proven that the God of the Old Testament is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

"Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda

It's taken me 19 posts but I have proven that the God of the Old Testament is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

You've got your militantly atheistic talking points down well. I'll give you that.

But alas...you now admit that you are one very duplicitous person who clearly wants it both ways. Your brain-dead mantra has always been Scripture proves nothing, except, of course, when YOU say it does. Do you contradict yourself much (rhetorical question, no need to fret over an answer)? You may think you're accomplishing something with all these posts containing scriptures deliberately taken out of context, but I doubt seriously you're earning any credibility points with anyone who can think beyond the tip of his nose.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You've got your militantly FUNDIE talking points down well. I'll give you that.

But alas...you now admit that you are one very duplicitous person who clearly wants it both ways. I doubt seriously you're earning any credibility points with anyone who can think beyond the tip of his nose.

SOUNDS VERY MUCH LIKE OUR OLE' TIME RELIGION EXPERT. WITH ONLY MODEST CHANGS TO A WORD OR TWO

.....YOU

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

SOUNDS VERY MUCH LIKE OUR OLE' TIME RELIGION EXPERT. WITH ONLY MODEST CHANGS TO A WORD OR TWO

.....YOU

Do you fantasize much? (Another rhetorical question 'cause I wouldn't want you to break out in hives for fear of having to actually answer.)

[Hank]

Originally Posted by hcap

SOUNDS VERY MUCH LIKE OUR OLE' TIME RELIGION EXPERT. WITH ONLY MODEST CHANGS TO A WORD OR TWO

.....YOU

Mic drop.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Do you fantasize much? (Another rhetorical question 'cause I wouldn't want you to break out in hives for fear of having to actually answer.)

You destroy any transcendent truth in the bible by dragging it down to your level. The actual history of idol worship of all religions by literal interpretation.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Scripture proves nothing, except, of course, when YOU say it does.

Have you ever heard of Shakespeare Quarterly? It's a peer reviewed journal where academics publish articles about Shakespeare. Ideas such as "Did Hamlet want to sleep with his mother?" or "Were Rosencrantz and Guildenstern gay?"

People discuss and publicize all sorts of ideas about fictitious characters. "Were Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson gay?" "Was Severus Snape Harry Potter's father?"

The writings of William Shakespeare, Author Conan Doyle and J.K. Rowling prove nothing outside their fictitious milieu. In writing about such characters involves an understanding that one is temporarily suspending disbelief for the duration of the discussion.

Surely there is no need for me to point out that I regard the God of the OT to be a fictitious character. Dawkins statement refers to the God of the OT as "the most unpleasant character in all fiction." A discussion of the God of the OT implicitly involves a temporary suspension of disbelief. Thus "for the sake of argument" one assumes that (1)the God of the OT exists and (2)the OT is a reliable source of data about him, i.e., I temporarily suspend our position that scripture proves nothing.

The reason I do this is to demonstrate that scripture is contradictory, and to demonstrate that commonly held ideas (e.g., "God is good" and "God is just") are not supported by scripture. In mathematics this method is called Reducto Absurdum (Reduction to Absurdity).

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Have you ever heard of Shakespeare Quarterly? It's a peer reviewed journal where academics publish articles about Shakespeare. Ideas such as "Did Hamlet want to sleep with his mother?" or "Were Rosencrantz and Guildenstern gay?"

People discuss and publicize all sorts of ideas about fictitious characters. "Were Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson gay?" "Was Severus Snape Harry Potter's father?"

The writings of William Shakespeare, Author Conan Doyle and J.K. Rowling prove nothing outside their fictitious milieu. In writing about such characters involves an understanding that one is temporarily suspending disbelief for the duration of the discussion.

Surely there is no need for me to point out that I regard the God of the OT to be a fictitious character. Dawkins statement refers to the God of the OT as "the most unpleasant character in all fiction." A discussion of the God of the OT implicitly involves a temporary suspension of disbelief. Thus "for the sake of argument" one assumes that (1)the God of the OT exists and (2)the OT is a reliable source of data about him, i.e., I temporarily suspend our position that scripture proves nothing.

The reason I do this is to demonstrate that scripture is contradictory, and to demonstrate that commonly held ideas (e.g., "God is good" and "God is just") are not supported by scripture. In mathematics this method is called Reducto Absurdum (Reduction to Absurdity).

Hey, Actor, did the Shakespeare Quarterly ever dogmatically claim over and over and over that Shakespeare proves nothing? (Another rhetorical question, for your info.) Well then, that makes you a liar since you used what you say is worthless fiction to prove that's it's fiction -- after saying that that fiction proves nothing. So, you not only contradict yourself but you employ circular reason to boot in your lame attempts to make your case. You use fiction to prove that's its fiction! And you do this by quoting scriptures out of their contexts, which adds to your dishonesty.

The only thing you have demonstrated is a total lack of integrity. Smooth move, Mr. ExLax. You spin a web of deceit only to become ensnared by it.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You destroy any transcendent truth in the bible by dragging it down to your level. The actual history of idol worship of all religions by literal interpretation.

What would you -- a God-hating atheist --know about transcendent truth? Is such truth a product of natural evolution? If so, how is it possible?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Hank

Mic drop.

Actually he was, according to scripture. You finally have gotten something right. Congratulations.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Hey, Actor, did the Shakespeare Quarterly ever dogmatically claim over and over and over that Shakespeare proves nothing? (Another rhetorical question, for your info.) Well then, that makes you a liar ...

"`Flaming` of other participants is strictly forbidden." - PaceAdvantage Terms of Service

Originally Posted by boxcar

... since you used what you say is worthless fiction to prove that's it's fiction -- after saying that that fiction proves nothing. So, you not only contradict yourself but you employ circular reason to boot in your lame attempts to make your case. You use fiction to prove that's its fiction! And you do this by quoting scriptures out of their contexts, which adds to your dishonesty.

"`Flaming` of other participants is strictly forbidden." - PaceAdvantage Terms of Service

Originally Posted by boxcar

The only thing you have demonstrated is a total lack of integrity.

"`Flaming` of other participants is strictly forbidden." - PaceAdvantage Terms of Service

I have stated that I do not wish participate in a quarrel. That includes flaming.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Actually he was, according to scripture.

Divine right of kings.