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10-21-2017, 05:52 PM
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#241
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
Thask,
I'm not sure what you're looking at...
Goto the 2017 HANA Track Ratings on our site - here:
http://www.horseplayersassociation.o...7Sortable.html
Click the column labeled "Takeout Score"
Which should cause the page to sort the tracks by Takeout Score...
You should be able to see that, after the takeout hike, Keeneland has a takeout score of 1.72
Which puts them about 30th among the 60+ tracks that we covered.
The only A track with a lower takeout score than Keeneland is Churchill.
-jp
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Forgive me, Jeff...I googled for the HANA track chart...and I evidently found an old one. I haven't bet Keeneland for years...for the same reason that I don't bet Saratoga. Short meets with many shippers and an overabundance of grass races don't appeal to me, betting-wise.
I wish I could erase my prior post...
__________________
Live to play another day.
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10-21-2017, 06:29 PM
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#242
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,258
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No worries.
-jp
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 10-21-2017 at 06:31 PM.
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10-21-2017, 09:26 PM
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#243
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,190
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what were their numbers today?
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10-21-2017, 09:41 PM
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#244
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,258
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
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10-21-2017, 10:06 PM
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#245
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,258
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Also... based on initial chart data:
Belmont UP +3.5M +36.5%
Santa Anita UP +793k +11.89%
-jp
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
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10-21-2017, 11:29 PM
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#246
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 1,028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therussmeister
Otherwise they get whatever their signal fee is. Did they raise that this year too?
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Yes. 1.1% is what I'm hearing from every source I've been able to check.
__________________
"Support Tracks That Support Players" Some Random Horseplayer-2011
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10-22-2017, 12:35 AM
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#247
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
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Jeff,
I'm hoping that with whatever public relations resources that you possess, you can promote the heck out of not only the Keeneland handle reduction but, just as importantly, the increase in handle of the other respective circuits during the same period
I believe that the new IRS rules are bumping up national handle, which overstates the already poor Keeneland handle.
You have some really good ammo here. I hope you take full advantage of the opportunity to display the negative effects of increased takeout. I'm sure that many of us here would be glad to assist if you can let us know how we would be able to.
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10-22-2017, 01:14 PM
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#248
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MONEY
Post #226 is reporting that Keeneland's handle is down 9.3%
I'm not a mathematician, some one that is a mathematician with all of the proper pool information should do the math.
Here's my math.
Last Year the take out on win bets was 16%, this year it's 17.5%
On 10/20 the Win handle was
2,484,951 times take out 17.5% = $434,866
Add 9.3%
Last years handle might have been
2,716,051 times takeout 16% = $434,568
That's a positive $265.00 for Keeneland on win bets
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How about exactas
Last year the takeout was 19%, this year it's 22%
On 10/20 the Ex. handle was
1,592,337 times takeout 22% = $350,314
Add 9.3%
Last years handle might have been
1,740,424 times takeout 19% = $330,680
That's a positive $19,634 for Keeneland
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It looks to me that Keeneland is making more money on handle this year than last year and that was their goal.
I don't know how the raise in takeout is affecting the attendance.
If attendance is significantly down, Keeneland could lose lots of money on parking and concessions
which could washout the profits on handle.
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Although your example only pertains to on track handle , the point is made. When Churchill raised their takeout, not only did the take increase, but they got the double whammy of a tax break from the state. Previously they paid 3.5% to the state and the increase in takeout actually allowed them to lower their cut to the state to 1.5%. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong. So basically at 19%, the track and horseman and breeders i'm guessing split 15.5% of on track exotic handle. After the increase they split 20.5% of on track exotic handle. That's more than a 30% increase and it will take a monumental drop in handle for them to ever think about going back to the old rates. Especially with the Derby being such a big part of their handle. Hopefully Keeneland will consider the negative publicity of the takeout increase and go back to the previous takeout and signal fees because I know there's no turning back at Churchill.
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10-22-2017, 02:18 PM
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#249
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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What do you think of these comments?
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10-22-2017, 03:09 PM
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#250
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthecreek
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Since I am Pick -4 player only, Keenland's increased takeout of 22% is STILL LOWER than NYRA's 24%! Further, I prefer their product over the incessant NY bred races that are carded for 'whale bettors' only, that's what NYRA cares about.
Any venue that can bury a race with Songbird somewhere early on their program, has gone absolutely corrupt.
If you look at 10/22 Kee late Pick-4 pool, it shows a total of $443K for a sequence made up of MSW, 2 ALWs and a Stake race with total purse value of $449k and then look at Bel late Pick 4 pool of $545k for a sequence of races made of 3 Stake and MSW race with purse value of $690K, it shows that Kee is a much more popular venue than Bel.
Now Kee early p4 pool was $237k vs Bel $254., this despite NYRA carding their best races in the early sequence.
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10-22-2017, 03:23 PM
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#251
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linrom1
Since I am Pick -4 player only, Keenland's increased takeout of 22% is STILL LOWER than NYRA's 24%!
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Just might be the most ineffective argument I've ever seen posted...
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10-22-2017, 03:29 PM
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#252
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthecreek
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He also made a statement that Kee doesnt need money since they make so much from auctions..........
which if is really the case why the hell raise prices on the product???
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10-22-2017, 06:34 PM
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#253
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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10-22-2017, 07:32 PM
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#254
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,258
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FYI, based on initial chart data, Belmont up huge again today.
Link to Side by Side Comparison - BEL 2016 vs. 2017 -- During the 1st 13 days of the Kee Fall Meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/bel-si...de-13days.html
BEL vs. the same Sunday last year:
BEL Meet to date - During the 1st 13 days of the Kee Fall Meet:
Translation: Kee missed out on a stellar weekend - because of the takeout increase.
-jp
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 10-22-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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10-22-2017, 07:36 PM
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#255
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linrom1
Since I am Pick -4 player only, Keenland's increased takeout of 22% is STILL LOWER than NYRA's 24%! Further, I prefer their product over the incessant NY bred races that are carded for 'whale bettors' only, that's what NYRA cares about.
Any venue that can bury a race with Songbird somewhere early on their program, has gone absolutely corrupt.
If you look at 10/22 Kee late Pick-4 pool, it shows a total of $443K for a sequence made up of MSW, 2 ALWs and a Stake race with total purse value of $449k and then look at Bel late Pick 4 pool of $545k for a sequence of races made of 3 Stake and MSW race with purse value of $690K, it shows that Kee is a much more popular venue than Bel.
Now Kee early p4 pool was $237k vs Bel $254., this despite NYRA carding their best races in the early sequence.
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I have to agree w/you about the endless parade of NY breds. That stopped me from playing that circuit many years ago. KY is my favorite circuit because there are no state bred races, but they keep stealing from the poor and middle class and giving to the rich through takeout increases. They are the opposite of Robin hood.
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