Maximum Security DQ Question

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by GaryG

In 1933 there was this. Herb Fisher on Head Play and Don Meade on Brokers Tip. There was no camera, just four stewards with binoculars. Three of the four said Head Play won, but they were overruled by the chief steward. Fisher felt that the fact that Brokers Tip was owned by the renowned E R Bradley had something to do with it.

https://vimeo.com/151796549

I think Tom had this exacta

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston

Stevie Wonder could have seen that War of Will was interfered with.

The "victimhood" of the other two was considerably less clear cut.

Nonetheless, this decision establishes a precedent - that from now on, whether a foul "cost the victim a placing" will be the "gold standard," even if it in real terms is more like "silver" or even "bronze" than "gold."

Country House was not really affected but Long Range Boddy was stopped cold while making a late move and was knocked back to 17th. I would call him a prime candidate for victimhood.

They purse goes up to the 6th place finisher in the Derby. Can you really say you know none of the affected horses wouldn't have made the top 6? Even if you're a psychic and can predict that, you don't think that almost causing a massive pile-up is grounds for a DQ? I think the gold standard was applied here.

Like cj said, "It was a bad, bad foul"

[MNslappy]

Originally Posted by burnsy

Handle and interest will go down . Just when they don’t need it. Casual fans are gonna walk from the next two. I’m sour so I won’t bet again til Toga. Plus, it’s bad for future Derbies. Hard for me to ever bet much on it again. These guys are gonna claim objections more now. And there’s bumping almost every year. The horse that got put up...... bumped his way up there. Plan on more 20 minute reviews in the future. People act like this race was close, it really wasn’t.

THIS

[MNslappy]

Originally Posted by woodbinepmi

Hopefully it's coming here:
https://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/ar...ange-kim-kelly

I don't play Hong Kong, but this is quite a brilliant way to handle these situations in my estimation.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by MNslappy

THIS

Yep. As I mentioned in the 2020 thread, my enthusiasm is sapped and this goes well beyond the objection. I’m not gonna be one of those “never betting again” people but I have family and other hobbies that can absorb more time.

[dnlgfnk]

I touted Max Security to all my family and friends, and saw a particular handicapping factor of mine realized in the inner dynamic of a race containing 19 horses.

I was initially astounded by a decision that seemed to be stewards grandstanding for an ever increasing media presence just over their shoulder.

Later, I saw a blowup of the incident, whereby for at least two strides, War of Will's forelegs are actually between and under the back legs of Max, contacting them twice.

In mine and many other's opinion, the resulting stretch run verified Max's superiority in the context of the individual Derby trips--having the superior early speed to save much energy for the stretch turn and run to the wire. Yet, he caused a very dangerous situation, and secondarily perhaps an unfair placing to War of Will (who did not claim because the connections did not want to deprive the winner of glory in the case of them moving up, but still not hitting the board, according to Blood Horse).

[Bill Cullen]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Later, I saw a blowup of the incident, whereby for at least two strides, War of Will's forelegs are actually between and under the back legs of Max, contacting them twice.

In mine and many other's opinion, the resulting stretch run verified Max's superiority in the context of the individual Derby trips--having the superior early speed to save much energy for the stretch turn and run to the wire. Yet, he caused a very dangerous situation, and secondarily perhaps an unfair placing to War of Will (who did not claim because the connections did not want to deprive the winner of glory in the case of them moving up, but still not hitting the board, according to Blood Horse).

The primary role of the stewards is to judge the fairness of the race and not to act as a surrogate for counteracting any perceived lack of safety.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Bill Cullen

The primary role of the stewards is to judge the fairness of the race and not to act as a surrogate for counteracting any perceived lack of safety.

I'd say arriving at a position on the track which places the forelegs of the horse behind directly between one's own, is judging the fairness of the situation.

[dnlgfnk]

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...y-derby-via-dq

The replay is just ahead of the comments...

At 2:04, I began a frame-by-frame...at 2:05 their legs are entwined. The blowup on a Sunday morn news show (CBS? I was flipping for all the coverage)
showed it clearly. At 2:06 Gaffalione puts on the brakes more than lightly and briefly sits in the saddle. In fact, Max came out more than I thought before.

As an aside, I don't buy crowd noise. He had saved much energy to his credit and was now shifting to drive, as any car would veer rounding a curve while accelerating. Happens everyday at every track.

[MadVindication]

I voted "No" because I think the system is flawed.

I don't know what else is there to do but it's really bizarre. Just shuffle them all up a spot like that race would've played the same way if offending horse was never there. What if a DQ of first place finisher in certain races meant there is no one who wins first. Maybe that could work. It would be equally horrible as what happened yesterday but no one would benefit too much from a DQ at least.

[MNslappy]

Originally Posted by MadVindication

I voted "No" because I think the system is flawed.

I don't know what else is there to do but it's really bizarre. Just shuffle them all up a spot like that race would've played the same way if offending horse was never there. What if a DQ of first place finisher in certain races meant there is no one who wins first. Maybe that could work. It would be equally horrible as what happened yesterday but no one would benefit too much from a DQ at least.

One of these post derby threads has an article about how they do things in Hong Kong. I found it really interesting, some worthwhile ideas in there.

[MutuelClerk]

Easy.

Yes.

[MadVindication]

Originally Posted by MNslappy

One of these post derby threads has an article about how they do things in Hong Kong. I found it really interesting, some worthwhile ideas in there.

I did just read that and it influenced me to actually think there was a better way. Max's DQ just seems so flippant by comparison. 2nd place horse is not the winner either.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by burnsy

Handle and interest will go down . Just when they don’t need it. Casual fans are gonna walk from the next two. I’m sour so I won’t bet again til Toga. Plus, it’s bad for future Derbies. Hard for me to ever bet much on it again. These guys are gonna claim objections more now. And there’s bumping almost every year. The horse that got put up...... bumped his way up there. Plan on more 20 minute reviews in the future. People act like this race was close, it really wasn’t.

This is probably all wrong. If the economy stays strong, handle will be fine next year.

[ubercapper]

Originally Posted by BlueChip@DRF

Yet his rider did not lodge a complaint.

Casse stated this was because there was no point. Finishing eighth and getting moved up one place wasn't going to give him any purse money. I didn't say this, Casse did.