war of will

[Bennie]

I have War Front in the sires pool which includes War of Will and Omaha Beach at 40-1 so i can pass on either of these as a win bet.I also used him in pool 3, prior to the muscle pull and poor race, boxed in the exacta with Tax and some field horses which include Omaha, Maximum,Tacitus, By My Standards,Haikal and Cutting Humor. If you asked me if I would play him now in the Derby I would say no but I do have some coverage and at some nice prices.

[PowerUpPaynter]

His workout looked really really good

[BlueChip@DRF]

Originally Posted by PowerUpPaynter

His workout looked really really good

Wow. That is the stride I was looking for in a workout.

YouTube

[Robert Fischer]

Isn't he an obvious pace-setter or co-pace-setter?

Maybe I'm missing something.

Success came on the lead. His misfire came when he both had a minor issue along with some off-the-pace tactical experimentation. Owner is sporting, and seems to be proactive and aggressive in similar scenarios. The other E and E/P types aren't flexing huge pace numbers. Add in the aggressive, sharp workouts.

Just seems dead obvious.

I know that horses get lost in the convo, but I think I've read three or four others in this forum mentioned on the pace, but not War of Will.

Am I missing something?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by delsully

I’m in the same boat, how many horses have setbacks in their last prep and then run well in the derby?

That said, I may use him underneath sparingly depending on the draw.

Secretariat comes to mind.....

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Isn't he an obvious pace-setter or co-pace-setter?

Maybe I'm missing something.

Success came on the lead. His misfire came when he both had a minor issue along with some off-the-pace tactical experimentation. Owner is sporting, and seems to be proactive and aggressive in similar scenarios. The other E and E/P types aren't flexing huge pace numbers. Add in the aggressive, sharp workouts.

Just seems dead obvious.

I know that horses get lost in the convo, but I think I've read three or four others in this forum mentioned on the pace, but not War of Will.

Am I missing something?

CJ has his pace projector up on the TF website, and Byk will he discussing pace in depth this week after the draw.
One thing, for both the CD days, pat attention to the PP when is says FAST PACE. I am still spending money for Derby day 2 years ago!

Are you playing the horse or the pace scenario?

[delsully]

Originally Posted by Tom

Secretariat comes to mind.....

How about one in my lifetime?

[BlueChip@DRF]

Originally Posted by delsully

How about one in my lifetime?

Giacomo... Mine That Bird...

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Tom

CJ has his pace projector up on the TF website, and Byk will he discussing pace in depth this week after the draw.
One thing, for both the CD days, pat attention to the PP when is says FAST PACE. I am still spending money for Derby day 2 years ago!

Are you playing the horse or the pace scenario?

On CJ = Well worth the investment. That TimeformUS pace projector has become a 'must-know' element. It gives you great info, and then it also is a great anchor-point of topic of conversation/debate on the pace. This has really become part of the serious handicapping process.


On Byk = He has a great line up this week
https://stevebyk.com/at-the-races-wi...cast-schedule/
another must use/listen thing

Tom, I'm mostly considering how War of Will will affect the pace.
For example, a horse like Tax trying to grind out a placing, has it a little tougher if the pace heats up.
Any horse who can possibly get the lead has a long shot chance. At least he's involved at some point. Mostly considering the pace scenario.

[jay68802]

One, of many, concerns I had about the Derby was this horse coming in off just works. Watching the work and it seems this guy is doing well. Removes some of the doubt about the Derby. Think now you have to use him on some of your tickets.

[Robert Fischer]

Casse keeps saying he'd prefer to press/stalk a target.

In the Risen Star he had to get over from that wide post and short run to the first turn, but that was a HOT pace 142 early TFUS.

So that Risen Star was forced on them, and then WoW really got into the bridle after being asked to break...

But then, It's tough when you have a 'failure' (last race La Derby where they blame a misstep/minor muscle pull) were you intentionally change tactics and set out to sit further off the pace, and the horse is nowhere.

Casse could be 100% correct that he's a 'stalker', but it kind of puts a pressure on the trainer and the jockey to break forward again where the success came.

And now, this Derby is projected 'Fast' , but mainly because it's the Derby w/ 20 horses and a huge prize. There's no "Promises Fulfilled" run-off speed.
Omaha has the class and talent to set the pace, but his pace numbers are not super fast. He hasn't run against the grain in a bunch of fast preps.
Maximum Security is great out of the gate, but he's 'controlled' all his races, and they were all slow paced races. I haven't seen him race or work hard fractions...

You got this chance to be on the lead in the KYD, ... as much as Casse feels in his heart WoW is a presser/stalker, I won't be surprised if he takes the initiative. Gary Barber is also a very sporting owner, and he see's that opportunity as well. Tyler Gaffalione is sometimes "Tentative Tyler", but he also was in the saddle for those three consecutive successful runs where he was up on the lead by the 2nd call.

Maybe he'll stalk... but I think he'll be on the pace by the time it sorts out.

[boys at tosconova]

Originally Posted by BlueChip@DRF

Wow. That is the stride I was looking for in a workout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjIj2QG9C2g

i don't put much emphasis on workouts but since this horse as some ailment effecting his last race it's important to see how he is on the track.

however,...i would be lying if i said i'm not impressed with what i saw in the vid.

horse is also looking like he'll be one of the 5/6 longest shots in the race to boot, and in decent position.

if that's the case you're prolly looking at an exacta around 2/4 bills if he can get second with the fav's, ob and gw...and a triple in upwards of almost 2k even wit the figure horses running third...obv just spit balling, but i'm sure i'll be in the ballpark.

[delsully]

Originally Posted by boys at tosconova

i don't put much emphasis on workouts but since this horse as some ailment effecting his last race it's important to see how he is on the track.

however,...i would be lying if i said i'm not impressed with what i saw in the vid.

horse is also looking like he'll be one of the 5/6 longest shots in the race to boot, and in decent position.

if that's the case you're prolly looking at an exacta around 2/4 bills if he can get second with the fav's, ob and gw...and a triple in upwards of almost 2k even wit the figure horses running third...obv just spit balling, but i'm sure i'll be in the ballpark.

My offshore book currently has him at 15-1. Another has him 20-1.

[boys at tosconova]

Originally Posted by delsully

My offshore book currently has him at 15-1. Another has him 20-1.

i could careless what an offshore has his odds at. most if not all of them are covering their bases and offering complete chit odds on everyone.

and in the present day derby you don't get odds like you should on outsiders anymore to begin with.

all i care about is that the exotics will be juiced in a big way if he's itm.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Maybe he'll stalk... but I think he'll be on the pace by the time it sorts out.

So which do you like better?
I wish it wasn't Casse. I'm not crazy about him on dirt.
This horse, if all goes right, is a major contender, despite he didn't get much out of his last race. But Casse's record in the derby doesn't inspire utter confidence for me....mind wracking here