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11-11-2018, 11:37 AM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lansdale
I realize the NBA isn't on many people's radar until at least the playoffs, but today's multiplayer deal between T'wolves and Sixers, sending J. Butler to the Sixers for Saric, Covington, etc. seems like one that can shake up the east, and maybe the Finals. Chemistry between the laid-back Embiic and the intense Butler maybe an obstacle, but Sixers would seem to be the beasts of the east now, if they can work things out.
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Toronto has been killing.
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11-11-2018, 10:28 PM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronsmac
Toronto has been killing.
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Yeah, and until this deal,I thought Raps would win the east. If Butler can get along with Embiid and Simmons though, imho the Sixers have the best starting five in the east. Even though Toronto has a better bench, in the post-season, the starters will be playing major minutes. Just have to wait to see how things develop, since the season just started.
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11-12-2018, 02:03 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Boston might win the most games during the season in the East, but with Butler integrated into the fold, the Sixers are going to go far in the playoffs, IMO. I'd like to see a Warriors/Sixers Finals.
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11-12-2018, 07:38 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Nate Silver's take on Butler trade
Agree with Nate that Sixers now in need of 3-pt. shooting -- after losing Belinelli and Ilyasova last year and now Saric and Roco, they won't be able to spread the floor as well with this current group. But I have a feeling this won't be all that difficult a challenge.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...new-big-three/
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11-12-2018, 07:44 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valuist
Boston might win the most games during the season in the East, but with Butler integrated into the fold, the Sixers are going to go far in the playoffs, IMO. I'd like to see a Warriors/Sixers Finals.
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Boston now seems a half-notch or so behind both Raps and Sixers imho, but with Bucks also moving into contention, very difficult to sort out the mix. I really don't believe Celts have one top-ten player -- Kyrie may be ca. 12-15, but his lack of D and low hoops IQ I believe will limit their chances in post-season. I would be happy to see a Raps/Sixers Conf. Final, which should lead, either way, to a more competitive championship than we've been seeing.
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11-12-2018, 07:50 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Philly needs to swallow their pride and admit the Fultz selection was a mistake. Get him off the court and put Reddick back on the court would seem to be the logical solution.
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11-12-2018, 11:52 PM
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#52
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valuist
Philly needs to swallow their pride and admit the Fultz selection was a mistake. Get him off the court and put Reddick back on the court would seem to be the logical solution.
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Imagine this team with Tatum instead of Fultz...downright scary.
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11-13-2018, 01:01 AM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valuist
Philly needs to swallow their pride and admit the Fultz selection was a mistake. Get him off the court and put Reddick back on the court would seem to be the logical solution.
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There are a lot of voices calling for Fultz to get the hook, which I understand, but Sixers have invested a lot in him, as a #1 pick, so I think they're going to continue to give him minutes for at least another month or so before making a decision. A few things -- he's only 20, and he's only played 25 games in college and 28 games in the NBA, so I think it's difficult to tell how good he might be. The dramatic decline in his game is from his .413 3-pt. shooting in college to .305 now -- is it better NBA D, his changed mechanics, or a 'the yips', as his former shooting coach thought. Who knows? Regardless, Reddick won't get more minutes -- he's already playing 30 min. per game which is what he has averaged for about the last six years -- at age 34, he's also limited. BTW, his shooting has also been horrible so far this year, though should improve.
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11-13-2018, 03:01 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lansdale
There are a lot of voices calling for Fultz to get the hook, which I understand, but Sixers have invested a lot in him, as a #1 pick, so I think they're going to continue to give him minutes for at least another month or so before making a decision. A few things -- he's only 20, and he's only played 25 games in college and 28 games in the NBA, so I think it's difficult to tell how good he might be. The dramatic decline in his game is from his .413 3-pt. shooting in college to .305 now -- is it better NBA D, his changed mechanics, or a 'the yips', as his former shooting coach thought. Who knows? Regardless, Reddick won't get more minutes -- he's already playing 30 min. per game which is what he has averaged for about the last six years -- at age 34, he's also limited. BTW, his shooting has also been horrible so far this year, though should improve.
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The 3 point decline could be some of the factors you mentioned but it is an extra 3 feet further. That's a huge difference. This guy was only a 65% free throw shooter in college. It's one thing if you are a 7 footer; he basically took advantage of some poor defense in the Pac 12 and got paid big. Hard to believe seeing guys like Tatum and Mitchell that the Sixers would take Fultz.
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11-13-2018, 06:58 PM
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#55
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valuist
The 3 point decline could be some of the factors you mentioned but it is an extra 3 feet further. That's a huge difference. This guy was only a 65% free throw shooter in college. It's one thing if you are a 7 footer; he basically took advantage of some poor defense in the Pac 12 and got paid big. Hard to believe seeing guys like Tatum and Mitchell that the Sixers would take Fultz.
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This guy has some sort of mental block since he returned from injury. He has Barkley's golfing disease.
https://deadspin.com/markelle-fultz-...-fr-1830396811
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11-13-2018, 08:58 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Elton Brand and Brett Brown made statements about Fultz' status today, in the wake of the Butler trade, to the effect that nothing would change re the team's support for him -- does this mean his minutes won't be cut for awhile -- we'll see. Given the reality, they're now shorthanded enough that they almost have no choice but to keep playing him.
The strangest thing about his game is not that his shooting is off -- you might expect that of an rookie coming into the league -- but the discrepancy in his college stats between his great 3 pt. shooting vs. terrible free-throw shooting. I've never seen this phenomenon in all the time I've been a fan of the game, and agree that there must be a psychological factor involved. Hope he can shake it. If not, there's no way he can survive the rigors of an NBA season.
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11-13-2018, 09:14 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Russell Westbrook
An afterthought -- interesting to compare RW first year in the league with what Fultz is experiencing now. Like Fultz, he was a great college player, and was the #4 first round draft pick in 2008. Like Fultz, he was 20 years old. How did his shooting stats compare with what Fultz has done so far?
Fultz
FG% - .422
3pt. - .305
2 pt. - .438
ORTG - 100
DRTG- 110
RW
FG% - .398
3 pt. - .271
2 pt. - .415
ORTG - 99
DRTG - 111
Amazingly similar. But RW was allowed to play 32 minutes a game because OKC was a lottery team which had no choice but to use him. Even the next year he was improved, but still not the RW he now know. Not saying that Fultz will become another RW, but probably a good idea to give him more time.
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11-13-2018, 11:04 PM
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#58
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lansdale
An afterthought -- interesting to compare RW first year in the league with what Fultz is experiencing now. Like Fultz, he was a great college player, and was the #4 first round draft pick in 2008. Like Fultz, he was 20 years old. How did his shooting stats compare with what Fultz has done so far?
Fultz
FG% - .422
3pt. - .305
2 pt. - .438
ORTG - 100
DRTG- 110
RW
FG% - .398
3 pt. - .271
2 pt. - .415
ORTG - 99
DRTG - 111
Amazingly similar. But RW was allowed to play 32 minutes a game because OKC was a lottery team which had no choice but to use him. Even the next year he was improved, but still not the RW he now know. Not saying that Fultz will become another RW, but probably a good idea to give him more time.
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Russell Westbrook was never a good shooter, even in college, and still isn't. Fultz was better. Something is wrong mentally with him it seems.
Also, Russ was on a lottery team for one year. His second year, same as Fultz is in this year, was a team that gave the eventual champion Lakers all they wanted in the first round. A buzzer beating tip in by Pau Gasol saved them from a G7. Obviously Fultz didn't play a lot in his first year but there is something to be said for being on the roster and being coached by pros for a full season.
This much I can say from watching Fultz so far. He is no Westbrook and he never will be. He just doesn't have that kind of explosiveness. The Sixers blew it by not drafting Tatum. Maybe they'll be able to overcome that mistake and win a title or two but they'd be a potential dynasty if they had made the right choice.
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11-14-2018, 10:03 AM
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#59
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,558
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Fultz is not a lottery pick, he's a guy who has to humble himself and play a role in the NBA, or go to China and be an all-star type.
Philly picked a 'trap' and not a 'trip'.
... They didn't trade Saric. Good.
Westbrook has 2 things over this guy Fultz; electric talent, and relentless willpower.
You can watch the college film of Fultz, and most of his highlights are little-man-dunks, or beating a scrub(who would never make the NBA) off the dribble.
I didn't watch much college basketball that season, but I'm sure he was valuable and fun to watch, - but you have to be able to look at that as a professional talent scout - and question whether those advantages will translate to the NBA.
I'm glad there are bad draft picks and bad trades. Just like I'm glad there are bad favorites.
He's got to be a humble hustling role player. He's not a guy you give a sneaker to. Picking him in the lottery or even the first round pretty much dooms him to being handicapped by his ego and his false sense of a star role entitlement.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 11-14-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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11-14-2018, 10:59 AM
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#60
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
Fultz is not a lottery pick, he's a guy who has to humble himself and play a role in the NBA, or go to China and be an all-star type.
Philly picked a 'trap' and not a 'trip'.
... They didn't trade Saric. Good.
Westbrook has 2 things over this guy Fultz; electric talent, and relentless willpower.
You can watch the college film of Fultz, and most of his highlights are little-man-dunks, or beating a scrub(who would never make the NBA) off the dribble.
I didn't watch much college basketball that season, but I'm sure he was valuable and fun to watch, - but you have to be able to look at that as a professional talent scout - and question whether those advantages will translate to the NBA.
I'm glad there are bad draft picks and bad trades. Just like I'm glad there are bad favorites.
He's got to be a humble hustling role player. He's not a guy you give a sneaker to. Picking him in the lottery or even the first round pretty much dooms him to being handicapped by his ego and his false sense of a star role entitlement.
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They did trade Saric.
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