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Old 04-25-2019, 02:49 PM   #91
bob60566
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Back in 2009 we were saying the very same thing about the demise in North American horse racing. (Google is your friend) and how to remedy.

Will we be saying the same thing in 2029. ?

One of the big things for me back playing is this late money it is not good for the game
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:53 PM   #92
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It’s a great real estate play and anybody who doesn’t realize that is crazy.
It is hard to make the argument that a racetrack is the highest and best use of that land. I am sure that getting a zoning change would be a piece of cake considering how much revenue would come in from property taxes after development.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:07 PM   #93
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this statement is strange (from a stakeholder)

“Why don't we just shut the track down and you just compensate everybody while we're doing it,” Hartunian said.
I was thinking about this some more ... if they shut it Santa Anita down for awhile, maybe the regular horseplayers could just give Stronach 20% of their typical handle so they could pay the owners and backstretch people while they fix things.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:34 PM   #94
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If Frankie loses the upcoming legal case his daughter will have no qualms about fixing things long term.
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:51 PM   #95
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It’s a great real estate play and anybody who doesn’t realize that is crazy.
So what? It’ll also get more valuable as the years go by. Is Belinda having to eat beans and rice or something?
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:39 PM   #96
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A closer look at Australia would show that they are down in every category except "fixed odds" and "bookmaking". So not exactly comparing apples-to-apples.
Fair point, but maybe the Aussies are doing something right? Maybe instead of trying to slice 20% of every bet, get less. Add in their drug policy, less racing (Aus 19kish, USA 37Kish last year), higher avg field size. They seem to be in a good spot facing similar issues as you would see here.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:55 PM   #97
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So what? It’ll also get more valuable as the years go by. Is Belinda having to eat beans and rice or something?
The Capital from the sale of the property can generate much more than running Santa Anita racetrack. Ya think.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:23 PM   #98
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The Capital from the sale of the property can generate much more than running Santa Anita racetrack. Ya think.
Exactly. If they were a public company they would have a responsibility to unload it, or that would be at least a huge question on why they keep it.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:53 PM   #99
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When you thought up the Betfair concept...how involved did you get with the idea before you were threatened with imprisonment?
I was mainly involved with trying to raise money at the time. I had never tried to do a technology startup, but I learned a lot about how to do one.

There was always talk about how online gambling was illegal, but the first time I can remember realizing how real the threat of jail was, was when a politician from West Virginia said I would go to jail if I tried to start up a "bookmaking website" as he called it. Mountaineer was my home track at the time and I approached them with the idea. I thought if they would start an exchange they could be on the forefront of a betting revolution. They weren't really sure how to run with it so they put me in touch with a congressman. He was also not sure what to think of it except that it probably involved jail time for me.

I knew England would be the most likely place to start up an exchange because bookmaking is legal there and respected. But I didn't know the lay of the land and I knew there would be huge pushback from legal bookmakers, even though I also knew they would eventually be customers because they could reduce their liability by laying off bets.

Overcoming the stigma of promoting bookmaking in the U.S. was a big hurdle. It was outlawed in the 1920s or 30s in NY. I recall reading that the owners of the NY Giants -- the Mara family -- made a fortune as horse racing bookmakers. They were smart to get into football.

The Rooney family in Pittsburgh, owners of the Pittsburgh Steelers, also made a lot of money running illegal slot machines around Pittsburgh. They owned Yonkers Raceway for a long time and now they own the Yonkers casino. Funny how that works. I guess it's like Joe Kennedy making a fortune running illegal booze during Prohibition and then getting his son elected president of the U.S.

There really isn't anything wrong with gambling. Mainly, the owners of established gambling operations don't want competition. It's better for them if I go to jail than it is for them to face competition. Even today racetracks don't want competition. Why can't the seasons of KY Downs, Keeneland, and CD overlap? It might have something to do with competition.

I knew the betting exchange was a great idea because it allowed the smallest of players to book bets. Typically, a bookmaker requires a fair amount of capital to get started. With the internet and person-to-person connections anyone could book bets for literally almost nothing. If you have 3 cents you could book a bet at 3-1 odds for a penny. Which is why it cracks me up that tracks still collect breakage from online wagers.

Additionally. I had more than one person tell me the mafia would probably come after me for taking business away from them. That seemed nonsensical. If anything I knew it would help illegal bookmakers by allowing them to lay off their wagers on an exchange in order to reduce their exposure.

Back in late 90s online betting was way more taboo than it is today.

I remember reading about a young car salesman who was making money betting sports online with an offshore bookmaker. He got arrested and did jail time. He was used to set an example. Kind of like the kid whose parents had to pay a giant fine because the kid downloaded music from Napster.

I was also told that for several years the founders of betfair were not allowed to travel to the U.S. because they would be arrested for accepting money from U.S. customers. I had an account with Befair and a few other exchanges for awhile until they all shut down my U.S. account. They had to if they ever wanted to become legit in the U.S. Then they bought TVG and are slowly getting a foothold in the U.S. But it has been a 20 year process for them.

The attorney general of Connecticut forced Xpressbet and Philly PhoneBet to close my accounts. I didn't even have money in PhoneBet. I just had an account so I could scrape their toteboard -- which they didn't mind me doing as long as I didn't hit it more than once or twice per minute. That's how much CT OTB was trying to protect their turf -- even though serious bettors would never consider betting a dime with them. CT OTB is a state-granted monopoly. How do you compete with that without going to jail? Nevermind, that the largest casino in the northern hemisphere is located in CT, but it's also on an Indian reservation. That helps. Of course, Mashentucket Pequot tribe had to agree to pay the state $100,000,000 per year royalty on their slot machines before the state allowed them to install them.

Check out this article from 2009 about a U.S. guy who went to jail for running a betting site in the Caribbean and you'll see why I decided not to pursue an exchange:

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/s...o-jail-6366563

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Old 04-25-2019, 07:56 PM   #100
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I'm not bitching. I'm telling it like it is and I'm offering solutions. You just are too old to get it.
JESUS CHRIST...you DO have an age complex!!
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:11 PM   #101
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JESUS CHRIST...you DO have an age complex!!
Nah. I'm just calling it like I see it.

"Oldsters", and that's a term of endearment the way I use it, are not typically as innovative as youngsters. Like I asked earlier, what is the last great innovation in the racing industry? The real-time running order chicklets?

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Old 04-25-2019, 08:13 PM   #102
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Exactly. If they were a public company they would have a responsibility to unload it, or that would be at least a huge question on why they keep it.
I thought I read somewhere that Santa Anita was a historical landmark. Is that correct? If so, that might make it harder to unload it for re-development.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:36 PM   #103
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Nah. I'm just calling it like I see it.

"Oldsters", and that's a term of endearment the way I use it, are not typically as innovative as youngsters. Like I asked earlier, what is the last great innovation in the racing industry? The real-time running order chicklets?
When will you realize that our game is innovation-proof? You do know that the lengths-behind determinations in the past-performances are still made by a guy sitting in the stands with binoculars...right?
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:39 PM   #104
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I thought I read somewhere that Santa Anita was a historical landmark. Is that correct? If so, that might make it harder to unload it for re-development.
If Frankie wins his lawsuit he will put San Anita in trust then it is safe. But if he loses, Oh well.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:25 PM   #105
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From Wikipedia:

Santa Anita occupies 320 acres (1.3 km2). It has a 1,100-foot (340 m)-long grandstand, which is a historic landmark that seats 26,000 guests. The grandstand facade is rendered in an Art Deco style and is largely the original from the 1930s.[21]

In 2000, the racetrack was named to America's "Most Endangered Historic Places" list. The Santa Anita Racetrack was determined eligible for listing in the National Register of Historic Places in 2006,[23] but continued to be threatened by developer's plans. A themed entertainment complex proposal was aborted, but there were new plans are in the works for the parking and support areas adjacent to the historic race track and grandstands.[5]

In 2006, there was a proposal to close Santa Anita Park and use its location as the site of a new retail/entertainment complex. The Arcadia City Council approved a plan In April 2007 to develop an 830,000 square foot commercial, retail, and office complex in the south parking area, where the barracks that housed interned Japanese Americans during World War II are located. The proposal planned to tear down the South Ticket Gate and the 1938 Saddling Barn, and to install a simulcast facility in the center of the historic grandstand.[5] In April 2008, a plan was approved to use large parts of the existing track parking lot to construct a mall, the "Shops at Santa Anita"[24][25]

As of May 2011, the plans to build another mall next to Santa Anita Park were abandoned. Protests against the project by the Westfield group, owner of the adjacent Westfield Santa Anita Mall (built in 1974 on the site of the old barns and training track), and the bankruptcy of Magna International, owner of Santa Anita Park, were a factor in the decision.[26]
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