Senate ObamaCare bill is dead

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Why not try working with Congress to begin with, as he promised to do as a candidate?

How can you work with people that hate your guts because they never wanted you to begin with and because you further publicly antagonize them regularly. If he gets tossed from office, the republicans are going to celebrate.

That was his mistake.

Guys like me that absolutely hate the government and think all these guys in Washington and in the media on are lowest form of pond scum to ever evolve on earth actually enjoy when he trashes the hell out of them. He says the things I'd like to say to them. There are loads of people that enjoy it.

The problem is what makes some people respond favorably to him makes other people hate his guts and want to destroy him. All those people are in Washington, the media, and the intelligence community,

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Clocker

You keep saying illegal. That remains to be proven.

Members of Congress and their staff people were "subsidized" by the same amount before ObamaCare. Especially for the staff, it was part of the conditions of employment that both sides agreed to when they took the jobs. If this arrangement is in fact found to be illegal at some time in the future, I think that the government as employer is ethically bound to make their employees whole.

Obama may have botched the manner in which this was handled, but the outcome was the proper one. I have no problem with redoing it "legally" to make things right with those who work for the government.

So what? Why should that continue AFTER Congress passed ObamaCare? Are they too good to foot the exorbitant costs of ObamaCare? Unaffordable Obimination Care is okay for the lowly peon voters of America but not for public officials? Maybe you're big on double standards, but I'm not.

As I said previously, several weeks ago I suggested the strategy that Trump is now contemplating. If the "average" American citizen can foot the bill to pay for his ObamaCare plan, then surely politicians and staff can afford to pay for their own! What makes them better than the rest of Americans?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So what? Why should that continue AFTER Congress passed ObamaCare? Are they too good to foot the exorbitant costs of ObamaCare? Unaffordable Obimination Care is okay for the lowly peon voters of America but not for public officials? Maybe you're big on double standards, but I'm not.

Either you did not understand or you are being deliberately obtuse. An employee accepts a job with a certain salary and benefits. But according to you an employer can arbitrarily renege on the terms and conditions of employment and that's just fine. The employer has no ethical obligation to uphold its end of the bargain? Apparently even Obama understood that honoring the deal was the right thing to do.

[MONEY]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Apparently even Obama understood that honoring the deal was the right thing to do.

While at the same time telling Americans "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

I have had to change insurance companies every year. Last year, one of my doctors refused to take my insurance -- so I changed to one he would take. However, this new company was rejected by my wife's doctor.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by MONEY

While at the same time telling Americans "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"

So he forgot to add the rest of it, the part about "...if you can afford your doctor." As his medical advisor, Dr. Death, said, that's the fine print, and you don't put the fine print in a political speech.

[Camkid77]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Slightly better? I thought it was going to be something great. Furthermore anyone who thinks that plan was going to work without MASSIVE insurance company bailouts is wet behind the ears. Blame Obama for the situation we're in, I certainly am, but that plan was a complete disaster that would have cost the taxpayers tons of money.

The truth, as much as all of you can't admit it, is Trump is failing on a large scale to accomplish any of his campaign pillars. He will, most likely, implement some sort of tax cut but even he may be able to botch that up. His political capital is more in the red than the Federal Government at this point.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Slightly better? I thought it was going to be something great. Furthermore anyone who thinks that plan was going to work without MASSIVE insurance company bailouts is wet behind the ears. Blame Obama for the situation we're in, I certainly am, but that plan was a complete disaster that would have cost the taxpayers tons of money.

The truth, as much as all of you can't admit it, is Trump is failing on a large scale to accomplish any of his campaign pillars. He will, most likely, implement some sort of tax cut but even he may be able to botch that up. His political capital is more in the red than the Federal Government at this point.

I respond to you because you do not agree but always have a response.
News Flash. . . . Something slightly better than before the ACA is great compared to this failed social experiment called the ACA.

There is no easy answer to this problem and everyone knows that, the self employed had product prior to the ACA. That product before the ACA could be improved to include several things like across state lines, health care savings accounts, belonging to group plans and other things suggested.

In no way shape or form will single payer ever be allowed to become law, that will bankrupt our nation.

Now you can dance around sound bytes and have a I want it sit in and the facts will never change. Our country is very expensive to administer health care because everybody makes too much inside health care in order to deliver the same services compared to other country's. Without death panels and long waiting periods, and set pricing inside the system of what people make that other country's have instituted the cost is absolutely astronomical.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Either you did not understand or you are being deliberately obtuse. An employee accepts a job with a certain salary and benefits. But according to you an employer can arbitrarily renege on the terms and conditions of employment and that's just fine. The employer has no ethical obligation to uphold its end of the bargain? Apparently even Obama understood that honoring the deal was the right thing to do.

Employers don't cut hours, wages, or benefits every day? They don't fire employees every day? These guys are so special that they shouldn't be subjected to the same working environment as most of us?

[davew]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Employers don't cut hours, wages, or benefits every day? They don't fire employees every day? These guys are so special that they shouldn't be subjected to the same working environment as most of us?

they are special - as employees, they cut their own hours and increase their pay

[classhandicapper]

The truth, as much as all of you can't admit it, is Trump is failing on a large scale to accomplish any of his campaign pillars. He will, most likely, implement some sort of tax cut but even he may be able to botch that up. His political capital is more in the red than the Federal Government at this point.

Setting aside the hostile press that is more interested in personal politics than actually reporting factual unbiased news, he has reduced regulations on business significantly, selected Neil Gorsuch for the Supreme Court and got him approved, and begun the process of securing the border and reducing the probability of hostiles entering.

That's 3 triumphs on his agenda.

IMO, the Supreme court was always the prize anyway. Gorsuch looks like a home run.

Health Care is a monster. A lot of people have failed to implement a compromise on health care (Hillary among them). The one guy that succeeded was Obama and we would have been way better off if he failed.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Employers don't cut hours, wages, or benefits every day? They don't fire employees every day?

They don't do it out of spite because the employees are not kowtowing to the employer.

And last I heard, Congress and staff are not employees of the president, and he can't fire them, as much as he might like to. "These guys" are not special, but their employment status is special compared to what The Donald is used to. Congress and the president are co-equal branches of government.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Either you did not understand or you are being deliberately obtuse. An employee accepts a job with a certain salary and benefits. But according to you an employer can arbitrarily renege on the terms and conditions of employment and that's just fine. The employer has no ethical obligation to uphold its end of the bargain? Apparently even Obama understood that honoring the deal was the right thing to do.

And who employs Congress? Who is Congress' employer -- the President? And Congress has a contract -- with whom, specifically? Are the members of Congress and their staff represented by a union?

Finally, it was Congress (specifically the Democrats) who shot themselves in the foot when they wrote and passed ObamaCare. Too bad they didn't read what they had put into it -- which required Obama to create a workaround solution to their idiocy by writing an EO. Evidently, when they wrote ObamaCare, they forgot to "exempt" themselves from having to bear the brunt of their own healthcare premiums!

And I bet you're the kinda guy who would complain the loudest about corporate welfare, yet you're in all on welfare for the ruling class, aren't you?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And who employs Congress?

Voters.

Finally, it was Congress (specifically the Democrats) who shot themselves in the foot when they wrote and passed ObamaCare. Too bad they didn't read what they had put into it -- which required Obama to create a workaround solution to their idiocy by writing an EO. Evidently, when they wrote ObamaCare, they forgot to "exempt" themselves from having to bear the brunt of their own healthcare premiums!

I agree. What I object to is Trump using bully tactics to punish Congressional staffers to get his way because he can't cut a deal with 50 Senators. The president's job is to administer and enforce the law, not to make the law.

If Congress screwed up on the original bill, there are lots of ways to fix it without using it as a blunt weapon while throwing a tantrum.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Voters.


I agree. What I object to is Trump using bully tactics to punish Congressional staffers to get his way because he can't cut a deal with 50 Senators. The president's job is to administer and enforce the law, not to make the law.

If Congress screwed up on the original bill, there are lots of ways to fix it without using it as a blunt weapon while throwing a tantrum.

I might have agreed ten years ago. Not anymore. These assholes have hurt a bunch of people. I hope he can find a way to bludgeon them with exec orders. Why should he care? They hate him for who he's not! I think the Trumpers will back him