Discussion of the Mueller Report

[Tom]

Originally Posted by delayjf

If he was really serious about firing Mueller, he could have made the call himself. Trump has no problem firing people.

And he had the constitutional right to fire him.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Why are you making up shit to defend this guy?

It's widely reported he actually hates firing people (a good quality actually) and frequently used other members of his staff to handle the deed.

Omarosa disagrees with you.

What are you smoking?
All we hear is whining every time he fires someone, And he has fired a lot of people in the last two years.

Why are YOU making up shit to save face?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by MargieRose

This is a one-sided report...the prosecutor's side. A thorough report. Still, no charges.

1. Keep the heat on all the way to the 2020 election...oh, to hell with accomplishing anything else policy-wise.
2. More importantly, a planned diversion from the crimes of several/many of their own.

Well stated.
the dirty little secret is that the dems have no platform to run on.
All they have is a stupid Green Eggs and Ham Dela. They have accomplished nothing in over 100 days and have nothing to offer for the next two years.

ALL they have to run on is Trump is very bad man!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Yeah they were negotiating the New Start deal... like the red meat toss on Iran... misdirection #1.



Of course you haven't instead of digesting what it says for yourself you'll take the talking points of whatever propagandist you listen to.
You mean, like the guy who WROTE THE REPORT?



Which one the FISA warrants? Shame you didn't read the report. It torpedoes most of those talking points outright. Would also explain the broken record responses lately of "just wait until we look at the DOJ/FBI"...

Misdirection #2



Hey when all else fails personal attack amirite? And... #3.

.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by delayjf

I have to admit that I have not read the report, but you are the first I have heard that has stated that Trump in fact colluded with the Russians. If that's the case, why did Mueller exonerate him on the charge of collusion, or did I miss something.

Mueller held to a high bar of criminal standards. However do we really want someone who has denied the Russians meddled in the 2016 election and is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors under constitutional precedent?.

"Although Attorney General William Barr said that there was “no collusion” in his press conference before the report’s release, Mueller is actually quite explicit that he did not address the question of “collusion.” This is because, to his mind, the term is not precise enough, nor does it fall within the ambit of what was essentially a criminal investigation"

“Collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law,” Mueller writes. “For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.”

But did the Trump campaign actively work with the Russian government to improve its electoral chances? If that’s the standard, then the report provides plenty of evidence to suggest the answer is yes.

Read this.....

Paul Manafort Briefed Russian Intelligence Member on ‘Battleground States’ That Nearly All Voted for Trump: Mueller Report
https://www.newsweek.com/paul-manafo...mpaign-1400826

Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort briefed Konstantin Kilimnik, a man with suspected ties to Russian intelligence services, about key battleground states in the 2016 presidential election, including Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Minnesota, according to special counsel Robert Mueller’s report.

The 448-page report, released on Thursday, laid out the findings of the special counsel’s two-year investigation into whether members of the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government during the 2016 presidential race. A key subject of interest in the investigation was Manafort’s work for Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs and his interactions with these figures while he was Trump’s campaign chairman.
The report noted that Manafort instructed his longtime colleague Rick Gates to provide Kilimnik with internal Trump campaign polling data and briefings on the campaign's strategies. For years, Manafort and Kilimnik worked together closely on political campaigns in Ukraine. Manafort even nicknamed Kilimnik his "Russian brain." The FBI has determined that Kilimnik, who was once a Russian military translator, has links to Russian intelligence services.

The Mueller report noted that Manafort expected Kilimnik to share the Trump campaign information with individuals in Ukraine and with Oleg Deripaska, a Russian aluminum magnate with close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

It's funny to watch ely constantly accuse others of spin.

All the while, he's promoting what might be the greatest spin job in American history.

One that refuses to cry uncle, no less. Making everything even more hilarious.

Deja vu!

YouTube

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

So, reality is you don't give a shit about elections fraud UNLESS its possibly Trump? Thanks for the clarification.
And here I thought some "right wing" guy like yourself would be unbiased as you say we should all be.
Here are some FACTS for you....
1. NO COLLUSION! You can talk about meetings, etc etc.... ITS STILL NO COLLUSION!
2. NO OBSTRUCTION charges were brought. You can sit here and say any "normal" person yada yada yada... You can say he (Trump) lied... yada yada yada ...
3. When I tell you the same for the Tarmac, etc etc, your only reply is whataboutisms?? LMAO.

NO CLOTHES ELY...thanks for the laughs CLOWN!!
And that's not derogatory as clowns always made me laugh as a child. I truly enjoyed the circus! You fit right in!!

Wow...

There wasn't any interference on behalf of Hillary Clinton and the campaign. Leaking Manafort's records (if true, again I attacked the source launching the investigation) was probably done because he was talking about breaking apart the Ukraine and creating a puppet Republic for Putin in the Donbass. Its actually really well documented in the report. (Which I cited and you ignored).

Also its a opinion piece from John Solomon.

1) Yes. It is collusion. Look up the Websters definition of the word. Collusion is a fake crime and doesn't exist on any book. It was actually also a stupid word to use. Collusion happened... lots of it... it just didn't translate to conspiracy which is a real crime.

2) Mueller even makes the point the role of the SC isn't to bring charges in the case. He can make recommendations but chose not to make any. Instead he outlined 10 items that by legal definition would constitute obstruction and then completed his report citing Congress and Separation of Powers.

3) More about the tarmac... I wish I could say I'm impressed but I'm not. It just demonstrates how weak the original article you posted was.

So there... point by point... I haven't once said Mueller should have charged Trump with obstruction. I said the report would be damaging as hell to him and it has been. Check his Twitter meltdown today. Also note the lack of willingness on your part and others to read the damn thing...

As far as Obstruction has occurred the sitting President of the United States was investigated for Obstruction and the Special Counsel's take was to punt that decision off because his actions were so questionable.... YUGE VICTORY!

Hell the report flat out says that if his counsel and others had actually followed his orders he would be... Obstruction doesn't require an act it just requires intent according to the law.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Tom

Deja vu!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

Its interesting you started this thread on the Mueller Report and haven't discussed any of its contents.

To this point I think I'm the only one that's quoted it.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

LMAO.....hey no clothes, YOU can't seriously be suggesting that its ok to lie as long as it doesn't rise to a level that YOU determined to be worse or not? Hell, show us all the memo that made you king!!!

I could care less how much of a negative light gets painted in....Sorry to tell you but the media has you way outclassed in that category. You're the one who doesn't seem to like it when the same standards are placed on YOUR people like Hillary etc etc... I know, I know, you're total right wing and just looking out for all of us and can't understand why we arent so unbiased as yourself.

LMAO...I can help you find a good clothing store since you seem to be missing yours!!!

There is nothing in this post but a rambling personal attack.

Do better.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

It interesting you started this thread on the Mueller Report and haven't discussed any of its contents.

I discussed the only thing that matters.
No collusion.

And that was the whole point of the investigation.

Even hcp has abandoned ship and hopped onto the Waters Wagon.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Tom

I discussed the only thing that matters.
No collusion.

And that was the whole point of the investigation.

Even hcp has abandoned ship and hopped onto the Waters Wagon.

Oh...

Crazy me. I accepted the results of Barr's letter at face value too...

I assumed we would actually talk about the report and its contents in a thread about... you know its contents.

Didn't realize this was just another "No Collusion/No Obstruction" echo chamber.

[delayjf]

M

ueller held to a high bar of criminal standards. However do we really want someone who has denied the Russians meddled in the 2016 election and is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors under constitutional precedent?.
Quote:
"Although Attorney General William Barr said that there was “no collusion” in his press conference before the report’s release, Mueller is actually quite explicit that he did not address the question of “collusion.” This is because, to his mind, the term is not precise enough, nor does it fall within the ambit of what was essentially a criminal investigation"

“Collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law,” Mueller writes. “For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.”

But did the Trump campaign actively work with the Russian government to improve its electoral chances? If that’s the standard, then the report provides plenty of evidence to suggest the answer is yes.

So why didn't Mueller go after Manafort for collusion?

Something else Mueller didn't address was Hillary Clinton's collusion with Russian Intel to create and use the fake dossier to instigate the Mueller investigation - but the good news is were going to get to that real soon.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by delayjf

M

So why didn't Mueller go after Manafort for collusion?

Collusion isn't a crime!!!!

Manafort has been charged with Conspiracy Against the United States. He pled guilty to it prior to trial. The evidence in the report provides the road map of his actions.

Originally Posted by delayjf

Something else Mueller didn't address was Hillary Clinton's collusion with Russian Intel to create and use the fake dossier to instigate the Mueller investigation - but the good news is were going to get to that real soon.

There was no collusion with Russia intel and the Mueller investigation wasn't instigated because of the dossier.

Read the report... The Mueller investigation was began because of Trump's actions with Rosenstein surrounding the firing of Comey. Namely he wanted Rosenstein to lie about it...

As to the original FBI investigation... again... read the damn report. Most of these actors in the report like Carter Page had already been involved in counter-intelligence operations predating Donald Trump even announcing his candidacy.

This is why actually reading stuff, even if it makes your guy look bad, is important. Most of the stuff being harped on here like Ukrainian assistance to Clinton, Carter Page, FISA warrants, is all debunked in the actual report that "totally exonerates" the President.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

There is nothing in this post but a rambling personal attack.

Do better.

Just as you accuse everyone of, YOU deflect....
Do Better!!

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

Just as you accuse everyone of, YOU deflect....
Do Better!!

You cited the Ukrainian effort to assist the campaign and I debunked it using the Report that is the topic of this thread.

Even if the link was true Ukraine certainly had a motive for wanting to harm Manafort and its detailed in the report... and it has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton.

You then proceeded to launch into a gigantic personal attack because you have no other valid response to offer...