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07-11-2018, 01:20 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I understand, I don't think it is a huge issue, or even one that matters much at all, I just wish this stuff was more transparent. Like I obviously know Steve Asmussen isn't saddling horses that run under his name at Remington Park, but it wouldn't hurt to know who is.
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It's not his long time assistant, Darren Fleming?
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07-11-2018, 01:27 PM
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#47
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits
It's not his long time assistant, Darren Fleming?
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I don't know, never introduced myself, but it definitely isn't Steve's hair I see in the paddock except on Derby day and Springboard Mile day.
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07-11-2018, 01:31 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Phantom
The Little Guy:
Why don't tracks allow trainers on the grounds by "invitation-only" with the subjective decision making to exclude trainers who appear to be taking an edge? I know that no one wants to reduce horses on the grounds but I can't believe any track feels like what happened last weekend and what is happening with the trainer in question is a good thing.
If I walk into the Wynn in Vegas and win at a rate that is out of the norm over a long period of time, they'll "politely" show me the door.
I know there are dozens or reasons this is probably a bad idea (opening the door for a variety of unintended consequences) but tracks are NEVER going to catch up to those taking an edge. They have to approach it in a different way if they want to eradicate the obvious offenders.
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Goodness knows Andy can shed more light on this than I, Phantom, and I know your question is for him. But, how could this be pulled off without concrete proof? This amounts to, guilty before proven innocent, no? A total about face of what we are based on. Just throwing it in.
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07-11-2018, 01:41 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,118
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First, this has nothing to do with who these people are. I personally think that both are very good people, and hold them both in high regard. And Grits, this has nothing to do with weather it is a woman or a man doing this, I would be posting the exact same comments.
From the New York Rules and regulations:
"(c) Horses suspended. All horses in the charge of a trainer whose license has been revoked or has been suspended, whether temporarily for investigation or otherwise, shall be automatically suspended from racing during the period of the trainer's exclusion or suspension."
This part is very clear, and the intention of the rule is to prevent what has just happened and to punish the trainer.
"Permission may be given by the stewards for the transfer of such horses
to another trainer during such period, and upon such approval such horses shall again be eligible to race."
And this is the part that puts a hole in the rule you can drive a truck through.
When the rules are written this way, it becomes a farce. Why suspend the trainer in the first place?
Last edited by jay68802; 07-11-2018 at 01:49 PM.
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07-11-2018, 01:46 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I don't know, never introduced myself, but it definitely isn't Steve's hair I see in the paddock except on Derby day and Springboard Mile day.
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The hair!! Long or short, still, he's the best looking man in thoroughbred racing. Some things don't change.
In New York at Belmont, in the racing program, Toby, his long time assistant there, Toby Sheets, his name is always listed along with Steve's. Which is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in a trainer. And I've not seen it from others.
Lord, knows how long it's been since YOU purchased a racing program. Something totally foreign to you!
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07-11-2018, 01:48 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
You only look at horses these computer teams WON'T BE TOUCHING. In other words, you become a long shot player.
That's what I have been doing.
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That's like advising the poker player, who is about to sit down at a poker table where a known cheat operates, to "just play the hands that the cheat has folded out of". The better advice, IMO...would be to advise him to stay away from that game altogether.
These are very dark days for horse racing...there is no doubt about that.
__________________
Live to play another day.
Last edited by thaskalos; 07-11-2018 at 01:54 PM.
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07-11-2018, 01:57 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
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Here's a question for you, Jay, and it is clear what the rule states. No doubt.
How do you know that Leanna Williford DOES NOT have her trainer's license?
Give it some thought. She has been doing this for over 20 years. Maybe, I'm wrong, but not all trainers especially females want to venture out on their own. Some are quite comfortable where they are.
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07-11-2018, 01:58 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
That's like advising the poker player, who is about to sit down at a poker table where a known cheat operates, to "just play the hands that the cheat has folded out of". The better advice, IMO...would be to advise him so stay away from that game altogether.
These are very dark days for horse racing...there is no doubt about that.
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I believe this to be true but am normally shot down by those that are employed by the industry in some facet. I know they are in a precarious position to balance objectivity with a positive face. It's tough and I don't envy them.
But I certainly hope, at least privately, everyone understands how detrimental to the health of the game these situations are. They seem to be happening at an alarming rate.
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07-11-2018, 02:00 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Mendelssohn was such a huge underlay, this kind of action in the era of CRW is not surprising to me.
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Is it common for a "computer team" to unload on a single horse in this manner? Aren't they supposedly spreading their wagers out...while trying to take advantage of every overlay on the board?
How do we know that this gigantic bet wasn't made by an individual who possessed more "inside knowledge" than is available to the rest of us?
__________________
Live to play another day.
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07-11-2018, 02:00 PM
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#55
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
Anyone that goes to the track and pays attention, or watches the simulcast and does the same, is aware of this.
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But not everyone follows NYRA racing everyday, and I bet the majority of the customers had no idea she was the "fill in trainer" for a top-shelf guy on suspension.
This is a problem. You guys on the inside might not think so, but to your customers, it is.
Treat us like customers is all we ask.
__________________
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07-11-2018, 02:03 PM
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#56
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay68802
Fine, insert "trainer of record" for "paper trainer". Still just a end run around a suspension.
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What suspension????
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07-11-2018, 02:08 PM
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#57
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Is it common for a "computer team" to unload on a single horse in this manner? Aren't they supposedly spreading their wagers out...while trying to take advantage of every overlay on the board?
How do we know that this gigantic bet wasn't made by an individual who possessed more "inside knowledge" than is available to the rest of us?
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I think somebody already addressed this a few posts above, probably better than I could, or should...lol
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07-11-2018, 02:09 PM
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#58
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits
Track Phantom and PA, I hope others will add thoughts to my questions, though, I know of course computer wagering is here to stay. Phantom, you pose a great question on growth. Is it actual or is it not?
... I used to handicap and bet each week. Not anymore. Now, only Belmont Week, the Saratoga meet, Derby Day, Breeders Cup and other big stakes days. The majority of the time only NYRA tracks with the exception of Arlington Million Day....and I'm doing that from Saratoga.
PA, you're correct, value in horses deserves close observation. A few weeks ago, not only Gronk's second in the Belmont, but Motion's, Spring Quality winning the Manhattan--both were cause for great celebration.
I love this sport above and beyond all but the questions about drugs, not betting activities, are beginning to come to me from people who haven't any knowledge at all of horses, their care, or their trainers. Those questions are becoming more and more difficult to field. ... I choose my words carefully in response.
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GRITS, Steve Byk has Paul Matties on halfway through the first hour today, for 45 minutes, talking about this stuff. Good listen.
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07-11-2018, 02:10 PM
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Phantom
I believe this to be true but am normally shot down by those that are employed by the industry in some facet. I know they are in a precarious position to balance objectivity with a positive face. It's tough and I don't envy them.
But I certainly hope, at least privately, everyone understands how detrimental to the health of the game these situations are. They seem to be happening at an alarming rate.
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The thing that is hurting this game the most, IMO...is that there is no independent investigative journalism in this game. No matter what grave injustice is committed in this game, the tendency is to try and whitewash it...because all the remaining "journalistic" outlets have their own financial futures directly related to the financial wellbeing of the game. What incentive does the DRF have to report about these disturbing issues on the front page...when the end result would be enraging the horseplayer to the extent where he might take a long hiatus from the sport...causing the DRF to possibly lose a customer?
__________________
Live to play another day.
Last edited by thaskalos; 07-11-2018 at 02:19 PM.
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07-11-2018, 02:10 PM
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#60
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Is it common for a "computer team" to unload on a single horse in this manner? Aren't they supposedly spreading their wagers out...while trying to take advantage of every overlay on the board?
How do we know that this gigantic bet wasn't made by an individual who possessed more "inside knowledge" than is available to the rest of us?
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Have you seen the graph of the winning exacta? It falls from $63 a few minutes before post to around $50, then drops to $25 after the break.
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