Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Such as?

I addressed the problems in the past when I refuted your lame theory that Jesus never existed. The problems that attend that theory apply to Hcap's equally comatose theory that the passion of Christ is only fake news (to put it into modern day vernacular).

Once again....see my 5705-16-25-26 posts.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

All I know is, they are a magical people with powers far beyond your comprehension.

They killed the second most powerful guy in the universe.

Pretty impressive, no?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by TJDave

They killed the second most powerful guy in the universe.

Pretty impressive, no?

Hmm...not really.

John 10:14-18
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd. 17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
NASB

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Hmm...not really.

John 10:14-18
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd. 17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
NASB

If we didn't know who uttered the above paragraph...we'd be doubting that English was his native tongue. Just sayin...

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I addressed the problems in the past when I refuted your lame theory that Jesus never existed.

Red Herring! You refuted nothing. You attempt to avoid giving an example of any problem that the non-existence of Jesus presents. I doubt that you can provide any such example. Either you can or you can't. Put up or shut up.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

John 10:14-18
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd. 17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
NASB

Did it ever occur to you that this is exactly the same kind of thing that a lunatic would say?

M-W Definition of Lunatic : affected with a severely disordered state of mind : INSANE

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

God's "omnipresence" does not mean that he is the universe. To be present in all places at all times does not mean God is the place. I can be in and outside my house at the same time. That doesn't mean I am the house.


Also, as stated previously, the universe is God's creation. But if God is the universe and the universe is God, then God would have had to existed and not existed at the same time and in the same sense in order to create himself. And that's logically impossible. It's self-contradictory.

Wrong. All things are the embodiment of God.He is the heartbeat, and fabric of the universe and existence. He is not separate from his creation. All things are divine. All things are sacred.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Furthermore, pantheism also defies another law of logic -- the Law of Identity. This law states: A is A. If something exists it has a nature - an essence. A cannot be non-A. An entity cannot have multiple identities. A dog cannot be a cat, or horse cannot also be a cow, etc. God is a personal, rational, moral being in his very essence; therefore he cannot be an impersonal, irrational, amoral universe. He can be one or the other, but not both.

So now you are telling God what he can and can't do. God can do anything except what you say?

Originally Posted by boxcar

And if these obstacles aren't enough for you, then consider these words of your "best friend": "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." (Mk 13:31). If God is the universe and the universe is God, then Jesus is teaching that God (including himself) will one day cease to exist. But how can that which is eternal ever cease to exist? Once again, you run smack into the brick wall of the Law of Noncontradiction.

Go back and understand Einstein's E=MC2. When things die, they do not disappear, they just change form.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Wrong. All things are the embodiment of God.He is the heartbeat, and fabric of the universe and existence. He is not separate from his creation. All things are divine. All things are sacred.

So now you are telling God what he can and can't do. God can do anything except what you say?

Go back and understand Einstein's E=MC2. When things die, they do not disappear, they just change form.

Go back and read the bible. Another attribute of God is that he is immutable. He cannot change. He can't change form. If God could change what he is, then there is no telling what he could become.

If God is the embodiment of all created things, then God created himself. Again, this is self-contradictory. And God cannot contradict himself, for God CANNOT lie (Tit 1:2). Nor can God deny himself (2Tim 2:13). Two things right there that the bible tell us that God cannot do.

Furthermore, if God created himself then he cannot be eternal.

In short, your pantheism is a patently absurd worldview.

But it's okay for you to tell us what God cannot do, isn't it? According to you, your version of god is so pathetic and weak that he can't reveal himself to his finite creatures that he created in his own image. He who created the mind, can't give our mind understanding. He can't give us true knowledge of him through his inspired revelation and the aid of the Holy Spirit that he gives only to his born again children.

Go pet a rock or hug a tree. You'll find your god in such, and get a thrilling experience to boot.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Did it ever occur to you that this is exactly the same kind of thing that a lunatic would say?

M-W Definition of Lunatic : affected with a severely disordered state of mind : INSANE

Only the walking dead would think that. What Jesus said makes perfectly good sense in the broad context of all scripture.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Red Herring! You refuted nothing. You attempt to avoid giving an example of any problem that the non-existence of Jesus presents. I doubt that you can provide any such example. Either you can or you can't. Put up or shut up.

Then address my multi-part argument in the posts I cited. You need to come up with a rationale explanation for how from a nothing-burger a rag tag Jesus sect blossomed into a worldwide religion, first spreading throughout the Roman empire (the known world at that time) by at least 70 A.D., and eventually to the known world of today. That kind of phenomenal growth is unprecedented in all history -- all based on myth?? How did that happen? More importantly, how did the first century Jews allow that to happen? Were they all spaced out on drugs or something?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You need to come up with a rationale explanation for how from a nothing-burger a rag tag Jesus sect blossomed into a worldwide religion, first spreading throughout the Roman empire (the known world at that time) by at least 70 A.D., and eventually to the known world of today. That kind of phenomenal growth is unprecedented in all history --

We've been through this before, and recently too. You are making a claim that Christianity experienced "phenomenal growth" but you have no data to prove it. I specifically asked and you came up with nothing. You claim to have numbers "from scripture" but I doubt even that. Even if you do have numbers "from scripture" it makes no difference since scripture is not verifiable.

Here are some numbers for you. Scholars say that the population of the Roman Empire in the first century was 20,000,000 maximum or 12,000,000 minimum. How many Christian churches were there? I seriously doubt that you could offer any evidence for more that 10 (if that, prove me wrong). For the sake of argument let's say there were 1,000 members for each church (I'm being kind). That's a total Christian population of 10,000. That's less than one tenth of one percent of the population. Phenomenal growth? I don't think so.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

More importantly, how did the first century Jews allow that to happen?

Refer to my previous post. The Christian religion made up only 0.083% of the Roman population (at most, probably far less). This qualifies for being "under the radar", i.e., they could not be bothered. They had other things to do.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by boxcar

That kind of phenomenal growth is unprecedented in all history -- all based on myth??

The LDS church grew from 1 to 16+ million in little more than 200 years.

ALL based on stupid s**t.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by TJDave

The LDS church grew from 1 to 16+ million in little more than 200 years.

ALL based on stupid s**t.

Smith published the Book of Mormon in 1829 so it's been a little less than 200 years, but you're got the right idea.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Refer to my previous post. The Christian religion made up only 0.083% of the Roman population (at most, probably far less). This qualifies for being "under the radar", i.e., they could not be bothered. They had other things to do.

First of all, the Christian religion spread throughout the Roman empire in less than 100 years.

Secondly, nowhere in scripture does it say that that Christianity would be the dominating religion in the world - only that Christ would have followers throughout every nation in the world.

Thirdly, LDS grew so fast because it is far more modern religion and technology has helped its growth. LDS can hardly be considered an ancient religion. But even though it grew so fast, it is a mere flash in the pan compared to the number of Evangelical Christians in the world.

Also, to compare LDS to Christianity is absurd unless you also believe that Joseph Smith didn't exist.

Lastly Christianity today makes up roughly 1/3 of the religious believers in the world, ranking number in the world.