Value of a beaten length

[Tom]

I started a new thread because I think we can take this idea a ways.

When does the final call get recorded? Humor me for a minute.

Is it when the winner hits the finish line, or is each horse recorded when it hits the line, and a formula used to calculate how many lengths back it is?

What if the order changes after the winner crosses the line?

[Tom]

Horses 2,3 and 4 are all covering a length at different rates.
What value do you use for each horse?

Suppose the race went in 1:10.3?
How fast did horses 2,3 and 4 run the race, or, how many lengths were each of them?

Suggestions?

[green80]

The lenghts back is recorded when the winner hits the wire. The finish position is recorded as the horse actually crosses the wire. So according to the DRF you could have a horse that is 2nd by 3 and a horse that is 3rd by 2.

[green80]

Originally Posted by Tom

Horses 2,3 and 4 are all covering a length at different rates.
What value do you use for each horse?

Suppose the race went in 1:10.3?
How fast did horses 2,3 and 4 run the race, or, how many lengths were each of them?

Suggestions?

Final times for each horse would be calculated by how many lengths back they were win the winner crossed the wire.

[cj]

Originally Posted by green80

The lenghts back is recorded when the winner hits the wire. The finish position is recorded as the horse actually crosses the wire. So according to the DRF you could have a horse that is 2nd by 3 and a horse that is 3rd by 2.

Sorry, but this is 100% incorrect. Each horse's final time is recorded as it hits the wire. The difference in the winner's time and each horse's time is converted via a set formula to a phony measurement we have dubbed "beaten lengths". In fact it is just a weird way of expressing beaten time.

[green80]

Originally Posted by cj

Sorry, but this is 100% incorrect. Each horse's final time is recorded as it hits the wire. The difference in the winner's time and each horse's time is converted via a set formula to a phony measurement we have dubbed "beaten lengths". In fact it is just a weird way of expressing beaten time.

The only time that is recorded is the winners time. I have never seen a losers final time only beaten lengths. This is just an estimate of how far back he was when the winner crossed the wire. I don't know what method the track uses to estimate the losers beaten lengths but when you watch a race and then look at the charts, I question some of these "beaten lengths".

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

Sorry, but this is 100% incorrect. Each horse's final time is recorded as it hits the wire. The difference in the winner's time and each horse's time is converted via a set formula to a phony measurement we have dubbed "beaten lengths". In fact it is just a weird way of expressing beaten time.

If every horse's final time is recorded as it hits the wire...then, why don't the past performances supply us with the final time of ALL the horses...instead of just giving us the final time of the winner?

[cj]

Originally Posted by Tom

Horses 2,3 and 4 are all covering a length at different rates.
What value do you use for each horse?

Suppose the race went in 1:10.3?
How fast did horses 2,3 and 4 run the race, or, how many lengths were each of them?

Suggestions?

It is actually all irrelevant. All you need to know is the formula the photo companies are using. It isn't nearly as complicated as some think.. It is just a set number based on distance and surface. Most races use .15, .16, or .17. Here is an example:

Winner: 1:12.00
2nd: 1:12.40
3rd: 1:12.64

It doesn't matter if the 2/3 finishers were gaining late or stopping badly, the calculation is the same.

2nd: 1:12.40 - 1:12.00 = 0.40 / 0.16 = 2.5 BL
3rd: 1:12.64 - 1:12.00 = 0.64 / 0.16 = 4.0 BL

It is a slow time of year, so some time this week I'll post video examples of how to figure out the formula. It took me a few weeks to a month to get them with video editing software.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If every horse's final time is recorded as it hits the wire...then, why don't the past performances supply us with the final time of ALL the horses...instead of just giving us the final time of the winner?

I have no idea, just like I don't know why a lot of things are done the way they are in racing. But I am 100% correct about the how it is done.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

I have no idea, just like I don't know why a lot of things are done the way they are in racing. But I am 100% correct about the how it is done.

Maybe Classhandicapper can tell us? Doesn't he work for the DRF?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by cj

... It isn't nearly as complicated as some think...

Good call. I sent Tom a note a while back because I thought I might be misinterpreting his question. And for TB (which use the teletimer) rather than QH (which used the photo timer) where I worked, it was even less complicated. The timer began when the photo plunger was enacted, usually just before the winner got to the wire. Which means the calculation was simply a function of the benchmarked time at which the winner's nose hit the wire (which might be less than a couple of seconds in elapsed time from enact) and the difference in subsequent times arrived at from that.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by cj

I have no idea, just like I don't know why a lot of things are done the way they are in racing. But I am 100% correct about the how it is done.

Oops, should have read on. If other tracks use the system the way that I have, my previous answer can probably shed some light.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Maybe Classhandicapper can tell us? Doesn't he work for the DRF?

Yes, but I'm not sure he would know the "why" either to be honest. Can't hurt to ask.

[johnhannibalsmith]

To be more specific on Gus question since I know that in our case we had both scenarios where the timer was started with plunger and also by the starter depressing the "button" to release the gate (forget why but think we had some trouble with some of the wiring to the points of start for TB), the time that would be released if recorded from the start using photo equipment would be recorded just like QH in that it would be raw time from the open of gate. Which means times longer than the actual run distance.

[Capper Al]

It's pick a value around or equal to or less than 1/5 a second and go with it. This is more a game of horses shoes and hand grenades than of exact science.